Thread: The Trayvon Martin case

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    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 1982
    Quote by Fuzz
    Quote by stake_n_sheak
    Quote by Fuzz
    Now you're just talking out of your ass.
    Quote by wikipedia
    A stand-your-ground law states that a person may use deadly force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of a threat, without an obligation to retreat first. In some cases, a person may use deadly force in public areas without a duty to retreat.

    So, Zimmeran did exactly what he should've, then. Martin was smashing his head on the pavement, and Zimmerman stopped him by using deadly force. Case closed.

    You seem to forget that Zimmerman initially started the situation that led to his getting beaten, and then his act of killing. Accidentally but still: in fact. I believe the "stand your ground" law applies no less to Martin in his coming around the car and beating him up. Martin felt threatened first. He did not have to retreat, and he used deadly force. That's what it means. I don't argue with you there. The right thing to do? No. But no more wrong or psychotic than Zimmerman's actions.

    I'm not going to repeat myself again. And we are not going to agree. I just want to be clear in what I mean.
    Quote by tangspot2
    Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 256
    Quote by stake_n_sheak
    Quote by Fuzz
    Now you're just talking out of your ass.
    Quote by wikipedia
    A stand-your-ground law states that a person may use deadly force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of a threat, without an obligation to retreat first. In some cases, a person may use deadly force in public areas without a duty to retreat.

    So, Zimmeran did exactly what he should've, then. Martin was smashing his head on the pavement, and Zimmerman stopped him by using deadly force. Case closed.
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 1982
    Quote by Fuzz
    Why do keep ignoring the fact that the police report states Zimmerman had head wounds consistent with his story of what happened?
    Because he started it. If I yell out "hey asshole" at a stranger on the street, that might start a fight. A gun in my pocket doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Now I'm not equating verbal insults with following somebody, but both are threatening behavior.

    Quote by Fuzz
    Now you're just talking out of your ass.
    Quote by wikipedia
    A stand-your-ground law states that a person may use deadly force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of a threat, without an obligation to retreat first. In some cases, a person may use deadly force in public areas without a duty to retreat.
    Quote by tangspot2
    Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 256
    Quote by stake_n_sheak
    Yo I'm not saying Martin acted wisely. But Zimmerman initiated the conflict (this does NOT mean the same thing as "attacked"; and not every conflict is an altercation.) He had a weapon and he proceeded recklessly. He was a paranoid jackass and he angered Martin. I wouldn't be happy about some weird dude following me around, either. Then he couldn't handle the effects without killing. Cold-blooded or not, that's what happened. Ultimately it's his fault.

    Once again, Zimmerman said he was attacked by Martin on the way back to his vehicle. Prove that otherwise, and you may have a case. Doesn't matter what happened beforehand. He can be the biggest douche in the world, but if Martin did indeed go after Zimmerman on the way back to his car, then he's in the wrong, because if true, then the altercation was over. Just because someone pissed you off doesn't give you the rite to go back and attack them.

    If someone is slamming a person's head against sidewalk pavement, they obviously have an intent to seriously harm, or even kill, that person. Zimmerman obviously felt that his life was in jeopardy. Why do keep ignoring the fact that the police report states Zimmerman had head wounds consistent with his story of what happened?

    Quote by stake_n_sheak
    Hypothetically the "Stand your ground" self-defense deal, as written, should have applied to Martin, if Martin had won the fight. Zimmerman behaved in a threatening manner before things escalated.

    Now you're just talking out of your ass.
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 1982
    Yo I'm not saying Martin acted wisely. But Zimmerman initiated the conflict (this does NOT mean the same thing as "attacked"; and not every conflict is an altercation.) He had a weapon and he proceeded recklessly. He was a paranoid jackass and he angered Martin. I wouldn't be happy about some weird dude following me around, either. Then he couldn't handle the effects without killing. Cold-blooded or not, that's what happened. Ultimately it's his fault.

    Hypothetically the "Stand your ground" self-defense deal, as written, should have applied to Martin, if Martin had won the fight. Zimmerman behaved in a threatening manner before things escalated.
    Quote by tangspot2
    Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 256
    Quote by The_Ronin_Identity
    I still find it very hard to believe that anyone would be the agressor in a situation that has them unarmed and the person they're attacking has a gun

    I don't recall reading anywhere that Zimmerman pulled out or mentioned his gun before the altercation. If he kept it concealed, than Martin had no idea he had a gun.


    I find it hilarious, and unfortunate, that people are still trying to make Zimmerman out to be some cold-blooded killer, when just about everything released so far points to him defending himself. The guy had head wounds according to the police report for Christ's sake!
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 408
    Quote by stake_n_sheak
    Quote by Fuzz
    Again:

    Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, the police report said.

    I doubt Zimmerman did that to himself. As the past has shown, witness statements are often not very reliable.
    And again: Zimmerman initiated the conflict. He had a gun. He was in control of the situation. He lost control and killed a kid. If he wanted to know who Martin was, he should have asked him politely. Not creep after him and call 911, then ignore what they tell him.

    He said Martin was acting suspiciously. He was also acting suspiciously himself. Martin felt threatened and was also defending himself, but had no weapon.


    I agree Steak n shake, This guy is the one who pursued a conflict while he was armed and was told not to follow him by the people who are actually trained to know what to do. I still find it very hard to believe that anyone would be the agressor in a situation that has them unarmed and the person they're attacking has a gun, I know i thought i was bulletproof and ten feet tall when i was a teen too but not to the extent that Zimmerman is expecting people to believe, this is a joke and this guy used to just need to mind his own business, now he needs to be put in jail
    "Good Nyborg "
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 256
    Quote by stake_n_sheak
    And again: Zimmerman initiated the conflict.

    Where does it say Zimmerman attacked Martin?


    Quote by stake_n_sheak
    He had a gun.

    Where does it say he pulled it out, or even mentioned that he had a gun before the altercation?


    Quote by stake_n_sheak
    He was in control of the situation.

    Obviously not. He got his ass kicked according to the police report.


    Quote by stake_n_sheak
    He lost control and killed a kid.

    Correction: He never had control because he was getting his ass kicked, remember? If someone is slamming your head against the pavement, are you going to let them keep doing it?


    Quote by stake_n_sheak
    If he wanted to know who Martin was, he should have asked him politely. Not creep after him and call 911, then ignore what they tell him.

    He said Martin was acting suspiciously. He was also acting suspiciously himself. Martin felt threatened and was also defending himself, but had no weapon.

    Still doesn't prove that Martin wasn't the one who initiated the altercation. Zimmerman claims Martin attacked him while he was walking back to his vehicle. Prove that otherwise and maybe you have a case.
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 1982
    Quote by Fuzz
    Again:

    Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, the police report said.

    I doubt Zimmerman did that to himself. As the past has shown, witness statements are often not very reliable.
    And again: Zimmerman initiated the conflict. He had a gun. He was in control of the situation. He lost control and killed a kid. If he wanted to know who Martin was, he should have asked him politely. Not creep after him and call 911, then ignore what they tell him.

    He said Martin was acting suspiciously. He was also acting suspiciously himself. Martin felt threatened and was also defending himself, but had no weapon.
    Quote by tangspot2
    Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 1368
    Lol

    http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2012/03/fox-just-realized-its-a-pretty-bad-time.php
    [img]http://archive.kontek.net/saturn.classicgaming.gamespy.com/content/md/reviews/c/contra_hard_corps/2.jpg[/img]
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 256
    Quote by stake_n_sheak
    "We heard a whining. Not like a crying, boohoo, but like a whining, someone in distress, and then the gunshot. Zimmerman was standing over the body with -- basically straddling the body with his hands on Trayvon's back," Cutcher said. "And it didn't seem to me that he was trying to help him in any way. I didn't hear any struggle prior to the gunshot.

    "And I feel like it was Trayvon Martin that was crying out, because the minute that the gunshot went off, the whining stopped."


    That sounds like not self defense. I don't know which side is true. But I still agree with the Martins' lawyer

    Again:

    Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, the police report said.

    I doubt Zimmerman did that to himself. As the past has shown, witness statements are often not very reliable.
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 10350
    I'm starting to think that Zimmerman acted in self-defense and he'll be found "Not guilty" in the trial because of it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpmILPAcRQo

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  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 1982
    Quote by Fuzz
    http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/27/justice/florida-teen-shooting-witnesses/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1


    Sounds like self-defense to me.
    From the same article,

    "We heard a whining. Not like a crying, boohoo, but like a whining, someone in distress, and then the gunshot. Zimmerman was standing over the body with -- basically straddling the body with his hands on Trayvon's back," Cutcher said. "And it didn't seem to me that he was trying to help him in any way. I didn't hear any struggle prior to the gunshot.

    "And I feel like it was Trayvon Martin that was crying out, because the minute that the gunshot went off, the whining stopped."


    That sounds like not self defense. I don't know which side is true. But I still agree with the Martins' lawyer:

    Quote by Benjamin
    The most important thing in this whole tragedy is that George Zimmerman disobeyed the police dispatcher and went and stopped and pursued Trayvon Martin and initiated what proved to be a fatal encounter ... that is the only thing that is relevant.
    Quote by tangspot2
    Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 256
    Zimmerman said he lost sight of Martin and began walking back to his SUV; Martin approached him, according to the Sentinel account.

    Martin asked Zimmerman if he had a problem; Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

    Martin said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, Zimmerman said, according to the Sentinel.

    Zimmerman said Martin pinned him to the ground and began slamming his head into the sidewalk. The police report described Zimmerman's back as wet and covered with grass, as though he had been lying on the ground.

    Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, the police report said.

    "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me," Zimmerman told police.


    http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/27/justice/florida-teen-shooting-witnesses/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1


    Sounds like self-defense to me.
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 531
    I think the bottom line is that Trayvon was walking through a neighborhood with a pack of skittles and ice tea...and who cares if he had a hoodie on or not? And also I don't care if he was a general misfit in school because the only knowledge Zimmerman had was a "black kid in a hoodie" and somehow he felt threatened?! WHY was Z threatened?? Was Trayvon vandalizing property in the neighborhood? Did he have a gun, crowbar, or baseball bat? Was he with a GANG of other kids? All I recall from hearing this story was that he was a threat because he obviously was in a neighborhood where he didn't belong and a 200lb 28yr man with a gun was so scared that he felt the need to shoot and kill.

    So whatever, this guy is a killer or a murderer, because if you're scared.. you don't go running after the person you're scared of... YOU'd be the one who was running! And he'll probably get off for a technicality but I hope karma comes back and serves him up like he did this kid.
    "It lies in the valley of the vision, where the slain are not slain with the sword. In the darkest shadows of light, there you'll find a door..."
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 70
    Quote by bassman21
    Quote by vkimo
    The guy definitely comes off as a gun toting busy body with a chip on his shoulder. Before actually seeing photos of Trayvon I had a mental picture of a ghetto looking punk. But he looks like a a good, clean cut kid! I saw today though he had previously been expelled for having an empty weed bag (Yeah, I don't know what the heck that means either) and apparently witnesses saw Trayvon attacking Zimmerman. Although I think Zimmerman was looking for a reason to shoot, I think there's a lot more to what went down. I wasn't there, so I won't make a overall judgement though.


    The pics that the media keep showing are from a couple of years ago. He was over 6 foot tall and looked older before he died. It looks like they deleted his facebook page, but before it was deleted there was a picture of (someone) shooting both middle fingers. Of course this doesn't make him a bad kid (if that was him), but it goes to show how the photo's being shown can skew people's perception.




    Thats NOT Trayvon Martin. Certain media outlets are trying to demonize him by reporting about his suspensions and troubles at school which have NOTHING to do with this case.
  • avatar
    • 8 years 4 months ago
    • Posts: 565
    Quote by Echidna64
    Quote by thabz
    Quote by Echidna64
    "Stand your Ground" doctrine is legit

    All the facts need to be sorted out, everyone's jumping to conclusions


    I think that's the main problem right there. That law makes easy for anyone to get away with the 'self-defence' excuse because one can attack FIRST when they think they feel threatened and say "Oh, he was reaching for something which I thought was weapon" and cops will buy it with little fuss and you can't really blame them.

    If Zimmerman had waited AS INSTRUCTED by the 911 operator I'm sure things would have been different but since he felt he just had to be the neighbourhood hero (with a gun which was probably 'compensating for something' tiny), he's created a shit-storm form for himself.

    Doesn't matter if Trayvon was a bad kid (aren't most teens like that whether black or white?), he didn't have weed on him that day he had skittles

    Hopefully this case wont get in the way of this Ben Stiller movie when it comes out
    [url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1298649/[/url]


    You're only allowed to use necessary force to repel the attack (I'm in law school homie)

    Without the doctrine you would be legally penalizing people for defending themselves from an attacker

    i.e. a woman pushes a rapist off of her, he falls and breaks an elbow then sues her.

    In this instance it appears that deadly force was not justified and yeah I totally agree that Zimmerman shoulda listened to the cops, his Stand your Ground defense claim will prolly fail after undergoing a trier of fact.


    In the example you gave I'm presuming that the rapist attacked first and in that situation the woman has EVERY right to defend herself (regardless of what happens to the rapist) i.e. 'observe-and-retreat' unless corned.

    With 'stand-your-ground' that woman can kick him in the nuts for standing too close because she's sensing a threat WITHOUT him initiating the attack.
    Seriously, that's the major loop-hole of that doctrine.
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