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I see that college has indoctrinated you with the liberal agenda, Mezase. I'm just kidding, of course. What I meant by my statement was that I don't see racism ending within the next few generations. Yes, younger people are more likely to be liberal about a lot of issues like religion, abortion, and marriage, but race is different. Race has fallen out of favor due in part to political correctness, globalization, and the World Wars to name a few reasons. Prejudice and discrimination, either direct or indirect, still exist, but I don't buy that they are only subconscious. Being taught racist views from older people may or may not lead to racist values among the youth, it is not deterministic. What does perpetuate racism is more along the lines of stereotypes and personal experience. By personal experience I mean the interactions among members of different races that reinforce the stereotypes. Lower class groups are more likely to be in direct competition with one another for jobs and other resources, and are more likely to hold racist views as a result. The stereotype that black mothers have children to be dependent on welfare and black males only want to be rappers, NBA players, and drug dealers are some examples. In reality, single white females are on welfare more than any other group, and there are more white males are in prison than black males. Granted, this is because there are more white people in the US. Statistically speaking, blacks are disproportionately represented in prisons. This is due to a number of socioeconomic reasons, not necessarily a psychological inferiority, although that is a legitimate reason. The consequences of slavery and segregation still remain ingrained within the US. The psychological state or identity of blacks is a result of being completely and systematically stripped of their rights and humanity, and this is reflected in black family structure as well. I mean, black males had no control over black family structures during slavery, females and children were completely owned by slaveholders. I don't normally agree with bassman21, but there is empirical evidence to support black culture within inner-city areas. "Acting black" is a way to preserve the culture that was created from the struggle for equality, which was just as much a construction from whites as it was from blacks. To seemingly contradict myself, this culture does lead to the idea that black males want to be rappers and NBA players because that is what they are taught to strive for from societal and media pressures. Clearly, not everyone can achieve that, but other things like education are seen as undesirable because they favor whites. Empirical evidence supports that black males are statistically the most likely to be arrested, tried, and convicted for crimes. They are also more likely to be seen as violent. This also leads to a negative portrayal of blacks in the US. Strain Theory on deviance would account for this because blacks are told they are "pretty much equal" and given the same cultural goals of making as much money as possible, but they have no legitimate ways of reaching these goals. As a result, some may resort to drug use, some may commit crimes, and some may create a culture that has values they can achieve such as respect and power through physical and violent acts (gang culture). Arrest rates are higher for these types of deviance because they are more likely to be blue-collar, physical, and easier to be noticed by the police. And lower class people can't normally afford very good lawyers. Now, if they couldn't get a job before they were in jail, and they are released back into the same conditions that they couldn't succeed in but now have an arrest record, do they still have the same chance at succeeding? Looking at the rates of recidivism, I'd argue they don't. Elijah Anderson's Streetwise and Code of the Street are some ethnographic books cited within scholarly articles from identity construction to deviance that account for this street culture. William Julius Wilson, a Harvard Sociologist who specializes in race and inequality, wrote When Work Disappears and More Than Just Race to explain inequality and poverty. Wilson wrote his books to be more accessible to the average reader. Latino Lives in America by Fraga et al. describes issues like education, discrimination, and inter-group relations among Latinos in the US if you're interested in that. I do take issue with there only being the "right way" to do things, because that doesn't account for variations among and within cultures and it implies superiority. I don't know all the details about this case, nor do I know the validity of Zimmerman's account. Was a race a motivation? Maybe, maybe not. But if race wasn't still an issue, I wouldn't see young black children being told by their parents that they can't wear hoodies anymore. Yes, I witnessed that. |
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| Dyzfunk7ional wrote: Now I can agree. If we are talking about generations of family history here in NORTH AMERICA (not plain America as you mentioned) then your point is valid. Though I still think is ridiculous of how some of them still blames the segregation/enslavement for their problems. This is 2012. All of that is long gone. Years of segregation (some by self omission, but most not) has created what we know as the "black culture" which the term alone is very broad. What some consider being black is insult to blacks everywhere. Unfortunately the ghetto form of it goes against what is socially acceptable by other races. Many blacks rejects this, but to some the "being black" is what is right in their mind. It includes certain vocabulary, dress and way of thinking. When someone grows up around this and nothing else it is what they deem as social acceptable. It's no different than with any other culture. When the ghetto crowd get outside their realm they run into conflicts with the general population because much of it is opposite of what is socially acceptable by most. Even if they are raised well at home the social pressures and influences outside get in the way. Even a school in a nice area can be greatly influenced by the ghetto mentality of a few. The media (music and movies) glorifying it doesn't help either. You see kids of all races adapting this mindset and it holds them back as well. I may piss some off, but I contribute it to the overall decline of our society. There is no black, white or brown way to do things, only the right way. As long as they separate themselves from the rest of the world and "stay black" they will continue to have problems. While society has become more tolerable to the so called black culture, the ghetto mentality will never be accepted no matter how much people try. I think Trayvon Martin may have bought into a lot of this and it lead to his death. Yes I still think Zimmerman more than likely is to blame, but we must look at what made him a target in a complex with other black residents and how he responded. |
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Now I can agree. If we are talking about generations of family history here in NORTH AMERICA (not plain America as you mentioned) then your point is valid. Though I still think is ridiculous of how some of them still blames the segregation/enslavement for their problems. This is 2012. All of that is long gone. |
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When I say "significant family history here," I'm talking about families that have been here for generations, of which I'm saying blacks generally have the most difficult time; I already said earlier I'm not talking about people who emigrate here, because emigrating to a country with a different language and culture is inherently difficult for anybody. I am not saying they have the hardest time overall, just the hardest of citizens who have had generations of family in America. And yes, that is a problem among some of them, in that they inherently think that they're at a disadvantage and therefore don't attempt to accomplish anything. That's just being a victim, and it's a problem that spans people of all races. But you know that blacks tend to live in cheap urban areas because of their past and present socioeconomic status, right? And those within these districts are generally poorer, have less opportunities due to this setback, and worst of all, they have the worst public education institutions in the country (though I'd like to note that despite what some people would say, these are much better than nothing). If you were born to a poor family in a crime-ridden neighborhood with a failing public school system, even if you were really motivated, do you think you could succeed just as easily as anyone else in the country? On that note, obviously you're not just at a disadvantage because you're black. Any black growing up in a nice middle-class area who goes through life without facing much prejudice would have it just as easy as a white kid in the same conditions. But there are still millions of blacks living in those poor conditions, and it's all because of our enslavement and segregation in the past. |
TMNT wrote: Movin` on up!! To the East side Blah blah Blah Movin on up Gaints lol. | |
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| Mezase_Master wrote: Also, I agree with bassman that blacks have a particularly difficult time in America due to their history as slaves and sub-standard social/economical conditions that still play a role in our country today. Obviously any other ethnicity may have a more difficult time moving here and adapting, but blacks born in our country are inherently put at a bigger disadvantage than other races with a significant family history here. I think all this idea about African Americans been in disadvantage because of their history/ancestry is kind of ridiculous. More often than not this "disadvantages" start in their own minds. A product of complexity and inferiority. As if they were the only ones that endure hardships throughout their history. Take a look at some Europeans and Latins ancestry. Still I can agree they are the most in need here in this country... but to say they are the race with more disadvantages than any other is out of the question. Latin emigrants for instance, have to endure more obstacles. |
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| SuperRainCheck wrote: I don't think racism is decreasing, it just doesn't always get national attention until cases like these happen. It only seems to be decreasing because discussion about it is largely avoided. |
TMNT wrote: Movin` on up!! To the East side Blah blah Blah Movin on up Gaints lol. | |
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I don't think racism is decreasing, it just doesn't always get national attention until cases like these happen. It only seems to be decreasing because discussion about it is largely avoided. I agree with Mezase that blacks are still disadvantaged today. Segregation was a way to keep blacks from the same resources that whites enjoyed, and while the laws enforcing them were removed, the consequences still remain. Education and employment were and still are some areas that blacks are disadvantaged, especially in the south. While I'd like to say that everyone has an equal opportunity nowadays, lower class groups do not. Access to quality education, good or decent paying jobs, and public resources are extremely limited, if not impossible, for people without the means to attain them. They are pretty much stuck where they are with little mobility. |
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| Of course. I'm just talking about the point where it won't be so widespread because of relatively recent events, and we'll only be just as racist as any other nation. |
TMNT wrote: Movin` on up!! To the East side Blah blah Blah Movin on up Gaints lol. | |
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| Mezase_Master wrote: For the most part, I agree with you. I have never witnessed or heard racism firsthand, an exception to the latter being from really old people who grew up in a different era. But I still think a lot of people, particularly in the south, tend to hold racial biases against blacks in cases like this, even if it's totally subconscious. Plus, three of the four Republican candidates for president have made blatantly racist comments in the past (two of whom did so during the campaign), and I think that particularly appeals to the extremist, backwards Republican party of today. So it's hard to say that racism is totally dead. On that note, though, I think widespread racism in America is on its last leg. Once the baby boomers become the elderly people, I think it'll really start to fade away, and be all but gone by the next generation. Remember, we still have a whole generation of people who grew up during segregation alive, and some of their children had been taught the same racist ideas that many of them still believe. So it will be a while. |
Shit happens when You fart naked Retro pimpin aint easy | |
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For the most part, I agree with you. I have never witnessed or heard racism firsthand, an exception to the latter being from really old people who grew up in a different era. But I still think a lot of people, particularly in the south, tend to hold racial biases against blacks in cases like this, even if it's totally subconscious. Plus, three of the four Republican candidates for president have made blatantly racist comments in the past (two of whom did so during the campaign), and I think that particularly appeals to the extremist, backwards Republican party of today. So it's hard to say that racism is totally dead. On that note, though, I think widespread racism in America is on its last leg. Once the baby boomers become the elderly people, I think it'll really start to fade away, and be all but gone by the next generation. Remember, we still have a whole generation of people who grew up during segregation alive, and some of their children had been taught the same racist ideas that many of them still believe. So it will be a while. |
TMNT wrote: Movin` on up!! To the East side Blah blah Blah Movin on up Gaints lol. | |
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| Mezase_Master wrote: Yeah, but don't you think they might come from poorer families because of that disadvantage in the 1950's? Economic status often remains stagnant through generations. And like most, I believe that Zimmerman was left alone largely due to the victim's race, but obviously that can't be entirely proven. You're right, I guess I did'nt think about that aspect but still, they are equal these days. |
Shit happens when You fart naked Retro pimpin aint easy | |
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| Yeah, but don't you think they might come from poorer families because of that disadvantage in the 1950's? Economic status often remains stagnant through generations. And like most, I believe that Zimmerman was left alone largely due to the victim's race, but obviously that can't be entirely proven. |
TMNT wrote: Movin` on up!! To the East side Blah blah Blah Movin on up Gaints lol. | |
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| I don't see how being black puts you at any type of disadvantage these days. They seem to have the same rights as you and me. If this was the 1950's than I'd agree with you guys but we live in a time where everyone has equal oppurtunities. |
Shit happens when You fart naked Retro pimpin aint easy | |
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I'm pissed with the way people are reacting to this case. First it was all "Durrr racism and the white man killing" supporting Martin and now it's "Blahhh reverse racism and a thug getting killed" supporting Zimmerman. Why can't people just let the police department do their fucking job and quit weighing in on something they don't know about? Like most people aware of this case, I don't know exactly what happened that night. I do believe, however, that Zimmerman should have been arrested, and that shooting Trayvon may have been excessive, unless the story of Trayvon threatening to kill Zimmerman and beating his head into the ground was true. I'll admit that, earlier on, I was caught into the hype too and assumed it was a racial matter. But I, like anyone else, should know better than to make presumptions based on open-ended cases like this. On that note, I'm interested in seeing how it develops day-to-day. Also, I agree with bassman that blacks have a particularly difficult time in America due to their history as slaves and sub-standard social/economical conditions that still play a role in our country today. Obviously any other ethnicity may have a more difficult time moving here and adapting, but blacks born in our country are inherently put at a bigger disadvantage than other races with a significant family history here. |
TMNT wrote: Movin` on up!! To the East side Blah blah Blah Movin on up Gaints lol. | |
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| bassman21 wrote: Dyzfunk7ional wrote: bassman21 wrote: I've said it many times before. Black males under 25 have it harder than any other race. They have social pressures from their peers to fit a certain image and constant labeling from others. It is really a bad combination. No they don't. Black males (African American) are royalty in Latin America and Africa. You can never compare the social status in the third world countries. I was talking about in the USA. Since you bring it up Africans probably have it the worst than any other culture with the AIDS epidemic and the starvation. That doesn't either. People from Latin America not only have to endure the social/cultural changes of a new country, but also the economic status wich in most cases is worst than African Americans. In the food chain sort-to-speak, latins are below. |
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| Dyzfunk7ional wrote: bassman21 wrote: I've said it many times before. Black males under 25 have it harder than any other race. They have social pressures from their peers to fit a certain image and constant labeling from others. It is really a bad combination. No they don't. Black males (African American) are royalty in Latin America and Africa. You can never compare the social status in the third world countries. I was talking about in the USA. Since you bring it up Africans probably have it the worst than any other culture with the AIDS epidemic and the starvation. |
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| bassman21 wrote: I've said it many times before. Black males under 25 have it harder than any other race. They have social pressures from their peers to fit a certain image and constant labeling from others. It is really a bad combination. No they don't. Black males (African American) are royalty in Latin America and Africa. You can never compare the social status in the third world countries. |
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| stake_n_sheak wrote: eddstarr88 wrote: George Zimmerman lives in a gated community and is involved with the Neighborhood Watch patrol. How common are Neighborhood Watch programs [u]inside[/u] gated neighborhoods? When looked at from the other side, if George Zimmerman was out of his normal patrol area and carring a firearm, shouldn't law enforcement have a problem with that? The more I think about this the weirder it all gets. |
The Eldorado is dead. Long live the Eldorado.
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| eddstarr88 wrote: George Zimmerman lives in a gated community and is involved with the Neighborhood Watch patrol. How common are Neighborhood Watch programs [u]inside[/u] gated neighborhoods? |
tangspot2 wrote: Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch | |
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