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| We have to respect the grand jury's decision. More than likely he will be found not guilty or will plea/be found guilty to a lesser charge. It's possible the prosecutor will not offer a plea deal though due to the fear of a public outcry. A plea bargain however will be better than a possible total acquittal by a jury. |
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Looks like he's being charged with 2nd degree murder. http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-murder-charge-trayvon-martin-case-214123361.html In my opinion, Zimmerman is screwed no matter what the outcome. Innocent or guilty, he'll still be one of the most disliked people in America. |
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lmao, Georgie-boy's disappeared http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-attorney-hold-press-conference-4-30pm-203437097.html yahoo news wrote: Both attorneys repeatedly refused to reveal Zimmerman's location but insinuated that he is no longer in Florida. "You can stop looking in Florida. look much further away than that." |
tangspot2 wrote: Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch | |
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| bassman21 wrote: Sorry, but that boarders conspiracy theory. The highway system was long on its way before Ike launched the Interstate Highway System. Yes of course you could drive out of some little burg in Texas before the "Interstate Highway System" was a thing. But also, people were a lot less mobile in the geographic sense then. Less willing to dismiss their community of the past howevermany years. |
tangspot2 wrote: Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch | |
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| Mezase_Master wrote: SuperRainCheck wrote: I see that college has indoctrinated you with the liberal agenda, Mezase. I'm just kidding, of course. I used to be very liberal myself, but became more conservative with age. In the past couple of years however I have moved a little away from the right and again towards the left. The problem is the far left, the far right and various lobbyist. Unfortunately they fund most of the politicians who will support their agenda. Not many without an agenda give a large sum of money to a political campaign. As for college it really activates theoretical thinking which leads to questioning status quo. Since we are still overall a pretty conservative nation it makes sense that so many young college students move to the left. With age I think you will find (as I did) that a lot of what sound good in theory doesn't work in real world situations. You will also find that many of these liberal ideas have unintended consequences. In other words you may have gotten what you wanted, but you will forced to give up something else in exchange. I have found when you try to make the minority (none racial meaning) happy you end up making the majority unhappy. We must realize that the roots of many of our laws and policies go back 1000s of years and many generations. Our ancestor learned a lot over the years with real world situations. We're still human and still have the same emotions and instincts. To just disregard history because things are different now will lead to it repeating itself. This doesn't mean we can't improve things, but we must look at the bigger picture. |
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| stake_n_sheak wrote: I do blame megacorps for destroying neighborhoods and creating ghettos. Historic example: Goodyear's hand in creating the highway system. They got Dwight Eisenhower to agree that cars were the future, and lobbied for buses to be used instead of light rail. Short-run trains were neglected and soon decommissioned in many cities. (Los Angeles used to have great public transit. Look at it now.) The new highway system divided neighborhoods and encouraged white flight. Which led to blockbusting and other nasty practices. The fabric of many American communities all over, destroyed. All because Goodyear wanted to sell more tires. I have way simplified the story, but that's where it starts. Sorry, but that boarders conspiracy theory. The highway system was long on its way before Ike launched the Interstate Highway System. It's intention was to improve travel from state to state and to standardize road signage. Many of the highways were already in place under a different names. For example I-45 here in Texas used to be called US 75 and parts of I-10 was U.S. Route 90. Here is a map of Texas from 1946. http://www.aaroads.com/texas/maps/1946-sinclair.html You can see there were already plenty of roads to get around and to make the white flight long before the I-H system. The white flight was the result of busing. I'll use Texas as an example again. In the mid 70s the federal government sued several Texas school districts including the one I attended for not busing black students in the black parts of town to the schools in other parts of town. The districts ended up losing and were ordered by a federal judge to rezone their schools. The district I attended had to re-zone where no more than 20% (ended up being much higher) of any schools student body could be black. There were also rules on how many black teachers each school had. They had to go through the black part of town and divide it between all the school. Also kids on other sides of the district had to attend schools in the almost all black part of town. This outraged many parents and they either sent their kids to private schools, lied about their address or moved. Most that left moved less than 20 miles at the time. It also inconvenienced parents that had to pick their child up from school plus raised fuel cost. My neighborhood went from being 90% white to 6% white in about 20 years. District wide the percentage of blacks rose about 20%, but the Hispanic rose astronomically. In 2002 a federal judge reserved the order (the district by choice kept busing the high schools till a few years ago because they felt black schools would have a football advantage) and now students are zoned to the school closest to their house and the white people live well outside the city. Busing was a total failure nationwide! |
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| You said the government doesn't mandate or enforce them when in fact it was a government job that had them. You said it was a myth. |
[quote]In my final meeting with the gods from the heavens above, as they spoke to me and hit me with the power of the Ultimate Warrior, they told me Exit stage left! Exit stage rig
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When did I say that quotas didn't exist? I said affirmative action legislation doesn't mandate them, that is a myth. Employers are the ones that implemented quotas, which are illegal in the US. If you didn't report them, it's your fault. EDIT: I'm not going to argue a point because you're deliberately misquoting me. |
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| See it's amazing that you say that quotas don't exist when i know for a fact that they do. When I have two members of management tell me on at different time that the people above them said they had to have a female on two separate occasions and a minority on another I tend to believe them over what you WANT to believe. Also the other job was a GOVERNMENT job that was hiring minorities with fewer qualifications and a couple with records... Oh wait I am sure you don't want to believe that either. I am not saying all companies work that way. The one I work for now doesn't. But the larger companies typically do. As to going by experiences you bet I do. When you speak to 24 year olds on a daily basis that have no diploma and are "disabled" you tend to realize this is not an oddity. This is the norm... |
[quote]In my final meeting with the gods from the heavens above, as they spoke to me and hit me with the power of the Ultimate Warrior, they told me Exit stage left! Exit stage rig
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I'm not sure if you ever mentioned politics when I was around, Mezase. To be fair, I never mentioned politics here before... though I haven't really posted much in the last few years. Well, the attitude on race definitely depends on the location. History textbooks in the south try to justify slavery through "paternalism," while other regions may mention it briefly en passing. That is why I feel the issue is left unresolved, the nature of the act is purely avoided. Maybe you haven't seen racism firsthand because of the environment in which you were raised, but others may have another experience. I, personally, have seen Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton (and the outcry on both sides) several times in my life, but I don't think all areas of the US hold racist beliefs because of my experiences. In areas with higher concentrations of poverty you will notice the effects of race more. Certain events will highlight racial tensions like this one, the Rodney King riots, and Obama's election. With the 2008 election in particular there are charts and maps that have been done that show the different counties in the south that did vote for Obama. These counties fell in the same locations as the most fertile areas for growing cotton in the 1860s and along the areas where former slaves were highly concentrated. But sure, the history isn't important anymore... it's not like people fought to keep every facet of society segregated for nearly a hundred years. I don't know if just holding prejudice views would keep someone from voting for another race, though. There was that one vehement white supremacist that voted for Obama. He said something along the lines of wanting Obama to be elected so there would be a race war. I think that's why there was so much anxiety of an assassination attempt, which is an idea that some people still have. But you can't ignore other factors that would have led to Obama's election besides race, such as changing from the Bush administration, lack of faith in Republican leadership, and Sarah Palin to name a few. I mention Palin because of the fear that if McCain was elected and died, that she would've become the next president. Of course, it is just more socially acceptable to engage in sexism than racism, but that is a topic for another debate. It is not a simple problem, and there is no simple solution. Just waiting for all the old remnants of society to die out will not get rid of the history, but I guess if it took long enough and society was restructured, maybe I could see racism being diminished. All the races are supposed to mix at one point according to South Park and go back into the past to take our jobs, so yeah. Now, Deliguy presented a few examples of what I was talking about, that personal experiences reinforce stereotypes. I don't believe that all people in poverty are "content" to live in poor communities. Do poor communities have broken families and stuff? Yes. Are those communities labelled as "bad" because of broken families, or are the broken families a result of living in a "bad" community? It's a little of both, but just labeling a neighborhood as bad continues the cycle. Just because someone lives in the slums, that doesn't mean they chose to live there. They may not have the resources to move, and/or they may not have access to get the resources. Saying that they don't try to find opportunities is ridiculous. Some don't, I'm not saying that's not the case, but constantly being in poverty can lead people to give up. Businesses do have an impact on poor neighborhoods. Which areas do you think are displaced first when that new factory or highway is going to be constructed? Sure won't be that rich neighborhood. Neighborhood structure influences educational and employment opportunities, and political and economic decisions shape neighborhoods. Redlining, the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956, and other policies were used to structurally segregate neighborhoods from jobs and resources. That is a fact. Opportunities are not always available. Poor neighborhoods generally have poor quality education, but they have the same "middle-class" goals of getting a good job and making money. Poor neighborhoods generally don't attract good businesses, and most of the work that is available is physical or menial labor with minimum wage and little (if any) benefits. I don't care how hard you work, if the only job you can get is as a janitor, chances are that in thirty years (if you still have the job), you'll still only be a janitor. The opportunity to advance is not there. Affirmative Action was enacted to enforce the Civil Rights Act of 1964 in order to eliminate discrimination against minority groups. Nowhere was it written in that legislation that quotas were a way to achieve that. The government doesn't enforce or require quotas. That is a myth. Quotas are illegal in the United States, with a few exceptions. So, if your employer said you didn't get the promotion because of a quota, it's your fault for not reporting them. To say that many uneducated people want to stay dependent on welfare is inaccurate as well. Some people do try to stay dependent on welfare, but a majority of them don't. Those that don't want to be dependent on the system are actively seeking employment, but when you're uneducated it is pretty hard to find a good paying job. And a majority of poor minorities don't even apply for welfare programs because they don't want to be stigmatized by it, they are too proud to accept it, or they may not be full legal citizens. Well, I think that's all I have to say about that. |
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| I personally think many of the uneducated people would rather just stay on welfare. In my line of business I speak with people in different states and living environments. Kentucky in particular is the one that shocks me the most. I am not exaggerating when I say 60-70% of my customers there are w/out a diploma and are living on disability. Oh and those are primarily whites that I deal with there just so it doesn't seem like my thoughts soley based on race. |
[quote]In my final meeting with the gods from the heavens above, as they spoke to me and hit me with the power of the Ultimate Warrior, they told me Exit stage left! Exit stage rig
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| DeliGuy wrote: When there are government mandated quotas that favor certain races then there isn't much of an excuse. DeliGuy wrote: ...its a huge domino effect, but you can't blame businesses for the problems in the ghetto. I do blame megacorps for destroying neighborhoods and creating ghettos. Historic example: Goodyear's hand in creating the highway system. They got Dwight Eisenhower to agree that cars were the future, and lobbied for buses to be used instead of light rail. Short-run trains were neglected and soon decommissioned in many cities. (Los Angeles used to have great public transit. Look at it now.) The new highway system divided neighborhoods and encouraged white flight. Which led to blockbusting and other nasty practices. The fabric of many American communities all over, destroyed. All because Goodyear wanted to sell more tires. I have way simplified the story, but that's where it starts. As for a modern example and how many jobs there are for people to get, just look at outsourcing manufacturing to other countries. Business has done this with no regard for consequences and it has so many network effects. Don't you think many uneducated people would be happy to work in a factory now with decent wages, as used to be possible in Detroit 50 years ago? Bloody hell, I would myself. |
tangspot2 wrote: Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch | |
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| stake_n_sheak wrote: DeliGuy wrote: ...There are plenty of opportunities for minorities in this country if they will simply try...As far as society is concerned yes there is still racism and it impacts all of us, but when it comes to jobs and minorities claiming that they can't move up from the slums I don't believe it one bit. When there are government mandated quotas that favor certain races then there isn't much of an excuse. The problem is simple. There are too many homes without a father or even a strong male influence and the culture promotes drugs, alcohol and promiscuity which further escalate the issue. More men in jail for dealing and doing drugs. Women having kids out of wedlock by multiple men and the men aren't responsible at all. its a huge domino effect, but you can't blame businesses for the problems in the ghetto. |
[quote]In my final meeting with the gods from the heavens above, as they spoke to me and hit me with the power of the Ultimate Warrior, they told me Exit stage left! Exit stage rig
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| DeliGuy wrote: ...There are plenty of opportunities for minorities in this country if they will simply try...As far as society is concerned yes there is still racism and it impacts all of us, but when it comes to jobs and minorities claiming that they can't move up from the slums I don't believe it one bit. |
tangspot2 wrote: Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch | |
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| SuperRainCheck wrote: I see that college has indoctrinated you with the liberal agenda, Mezase. I'm just kidding, of course. SuperRainCheck wrote: Prejudice and discrimination, either direct or indirect, still exist, but I don't buy that they are only subconscious. SuperRainCheck wrote: What I meant by my statement was that I don't see racism ending within the next few generations. Yes, younger people are more likely to be liberal about a lot of issues like religion, abortion, and marriage, but race is different. I'm reminded of that South Park episode with the debate over the town flag of the black guy being hanged around a bunch of white guys, and Stan and Kyle think that the issue with the flag is that it shows someone being hanged without even noticing the skin colors. I really think that the preaching of tolerance and acceptance in our culture works, and it's finally starting to get to the point where the older generations who grew up through integration and still hold resentments will all die out and the open-minded youth of today will become the older generation. I also want to point out that, recently, we've seen many instances of politicians and protesters starting to act more openly racist in ways that would not have been acceptable at all ten years ago. While some would argue that it is a resurgence of racism, I see it more as racism on its last leg, trying to cater to the older generations and backwards followers of those ideas as we near the point where it will no longer be effective. It's been just long enough since the civil rights movements for it to be "okay" to be subtly racist in public, and just before the point that the more progressive citizens will begin taking over as a huge majority. The fact that we have a half-black president doesn't make publicly uniting racists much more difficult, either. Keep in mind that none of these politicians, save for Ron Paul, are popular at all with the grand majority of citizens under 30 (and in Ron Paul's case, his followers choose to disprove the evidence in their mind and are not actually racist themselves). Maybe I'm totally wrong, but that's how it looks to me. |
TMNT wrote: Movin` on up!! To the East side Blah blah Blah Movin on up Gaints lol. | |
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| Lets face it on average a person is only as good as the environment they grow up in. Whether it be a trailer park in Kentucky or the Ghetto in South Central more often than not people are content to live a lifestyle they are familiar with. In most "bad" areas i believe you will find a common theme of broken homes, welfare, etc... There are plenty of opportunities for minorities in this country if they will simply try. I personally have been passed up b/c of my race and gender for promotions b/c of the ratio of men to women and whites to minorities. (I was actually apologized to by our sites VP b/c it happened on more than one occasion.) I have applied for other jobs only to find out from the people that work at the place that the individuals that were hired instead of me had only a high school diploma and even had a criminal record. Once again they were hired b/c of their race. I have a bachelors which according to the job description was preferred and no criminal record at all. As far as society is concerned yes there is still racism and it impacts all of us, but when it comes to jobs and minorities claiming that they can't move up from the slums I don't believe it one bit. I mean I live in East Tennessee... If the companies follow those guidelines here, you know its more so in other areas... |
[quote]In my final meeting with the gods from the heavens above, as they spoke to me and hit me with the power of the Ultimate Warrior, they told me Exit stage left! Exit stage rig
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Well there is a different standard in the US. You don't see poor people in the US living the same way poor people do in South America because anyone who does that gets disappeared. http://media1.imbresources.org/files/52/5214/5214-28217.jpg imb.org wrote: Residents of Rocinha, one of the most dangerous slums in all of South America, take to the roof of their homes to fly kites, relax and visit with one another." |
tangspot2 wrote: Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch | |
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| bassman21 wrote: Dyzfunk7ional wrote: Now I can agree. If we are talking about generations of family history here in NORTH AMERICA (not plain America as you mentioned) then your point is valid. Though I still think is ridiculous of how some of them still blames the segregation/enslavement for their problems. This is 2012. All of that is long gone. Years of segregation (some by self omission, but most not) has created what we know as the "black culture" which the term alone is very broad. What some consider being black is insult to blacks everywhere. Unfortunately the ghetto form of it goes against what is socially acceptable by other races. Many blacks rejects this, but to some the "being black" is what is right in their mind. It includes certain vocabulary, dress and way of thinking. When someone grows up around this and nothing else it is what they deem as social acceptable. It's no different than with any other culture. When the ghetto crowd get outside their realm they run into conflicts with the general population because much of it is opposite of what is socially acceptable by most. Even if they are raised well at home the social pressures and influences outside get in the way. Even a school in a nice area can be greatly influenced by the ghetto mentality of a few. The media (music and movies) glorifying it doesn't help either. You see kids of all races adapting this mindset and it holds them back as well. I may piss some off, but I contribute it to the overall decline of our society. There is no black, white or brown way to do things, only the right way. As long as they separate themselves from the rest of the world and "stay black" they will continue to have problems. While society has become more tolerable to the so called black culture, the ghetto mentality will never be accepted no matter how much people try. I think Trayvon Martin may have bought into a lot of this and it lead to his death. Yes I still think Zimmerman more than likely is to blame, but we must look at what made him a target in a complex with other black residents and how he responded. True. But to say that "ghetto mentality" is the cause of the "overall decline of our society" is a bit harsh. I do agree it contributes but society problems are more than that. Is difficult to pin point the problem but if something we can start pointing some fingers to white collar government. What all of this people must do is take a trip to other parts of the world and experience what poverty and "disadvantage" really means. No need to go that far. Just South America/Caribbean and they will hug dearly thier food stamps. |
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