- 2 years 1 month ago
- Posts: 4622
DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Its the fact that our government recognizes them as a couple. It is still in some form or fashion approving of the relationship.
And that's bad because it goes against the bible?
Well yes, but its completely unnatural. The only reason you think its ok is b/c you have heard from elementary age that its natural and ok and blah blah blah. Should we legalize any relationship just b/c an individual is in love? Thats the main argument that I hear. "What's wrong with two people loving one another?" By that logic lets legalize any form of sexual perversion and recognize the individuals as a couple... Bestiality, pedophilia, etc...
That argument uses NO logic though. Think about it, two men wanting to be married is no better or worse to you than a man marrying a dog? Come on. How would a dog sign marriage papers or say their vows? We're talking about two consenting people of legal age, let's not invent crazy scenarios in an effort to trivialize it.
Homosexuality is more natural than you give it credit for. It has been occuring in people and animals since the beginning of time. The only reason you think it is unnatural is because you have heard since childhood that homosexuality is wrong. (i believe it is in Leviticus where it states that homos should be put to death)
EDIT" I shouldn't say it contains "no logic" since you're a logical person but it's a very spurious argument.
The only reason you fail to see the logic is b/c you accept the lifestyle. Given the fact that homosexuality only occurs in about 1% of the population proves it is unnatural. You also realize that it is not only religious people that see it as unnatural. Also we have moved on from gay marriage. The last you and I were talking about was dealing with the government recognizing homosexuals as couples not a marriage. Personally I see homosexuality, pedophilia and bestiality all as being forms of sexual perversion. They are abnormal. Your argument about how long things have been happening really plays no bearing in this point b/c all forms of perversion have been around for thousands of years. It still doesn't make it right. Here is what scares me: 50 years ago you wouldn't have been arguing about this. The problem with secular morality is that it is constantly changing and rarely if ever for the better. So 50 years from now will our society accept pedophilia as well? There are societies that have.
Well, if homosexuality's rarity in the face of common marriages means it is unnatural, then that means being left-handed is unnatural too?
50 years ago we might also have been bitching about how black people should always ride at the back of the bus.
Yeah it is unnatural... I don't see why you would want to debate the meaning of that word when you defended debris use of parasite. You can't say that sexual orientation and race are the same. Even blacks get ticked off when that gets started.
Being left-handed is perfectly natural to a leftie.
When did i say race and sexual orientation were the same? You said the problem with secular morality was that it is always changing. I simply meant that generations have a way of looking at things differently, and i don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.
People of the time of the Bible were fine with slavery, nowadays we are not. Has our perspective as a society on that matter changed for the worse? I don't think so, i think we learn more as we go.Are you sure you want to delete this post? Yes | No - 2 years 1 month ago
- Posts: 4622
DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:bassman21 wrote:Shazbot wrote:bassman21 wrote:However in the long run people would be forced to do more to avoid getting pregnant in the first place.
But you just said you didn't want to argue theoreticals.
For example, the idea that a lack of access to abortions would curb sex has failed miserably in Africa. Now look at them, some countries have an AIDS infection rate of almost 30% and children are slowly starving to death along with their mothers, but hey, our consciences are clean because we didn't want them to get abortions, so we win!
They also don't have access to contraceptives that we do.
I don't support an all out ban on abortion, but I don't think we should be saying it's OK. A human life is something we all should take seriously and abortion should be a last resort. Even in the case of rape many women go on to have the child and have no regrets. I have known several girls that had an abortion and all but one wished they never did it. At the very least we should let women know all their options before going through with it. One thing I found is there is often someone telling them they should abort it, usually the man that doesn't want to pay child support or a feminist friend.
If they wished they never did it, then that in itself could be used as an educational tool, rather than using the sanctity of life argument, which is hypocritical since we all have someone we could think of who could die without us caring.
Africans not having access to contraceptives is the exact argument i was making. They don't have the access to birth control and abortions, but the lack of facilities hasn't stopped them from making babies like you said it might.
I think bassman was saying that we have plenty of contraceptives available and that people would start using them rather than using abortion as a form of birth control. I am guessing your average villager in Africa doesn't have the access that we do to contraceptives.
My point was that the lack of contraceptives available hasn't stopped them from having sex. Just as a lack of availability of abortions wouldn't necessarily cause people to use condoms if they weren't going to to begin with.
So if you are saying that people will act the same even if the risk is greater? I don't think thats so. Granted many will, but more would stop and think than do now.
It's possible, but not necessarily likely in my opinion.Are you sure you want to delete this post? Yes | No 
- 2 years 1 month ago
- Posts: 2852
Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Its the fact that our government recognizes them as a couple. It is still in some form or fashion approving of the relationship.
And that's bad because it goes against the bible?
Well yes, but its completely unnatural. The only reason you think its ok is b/c you have heard from elementary age that its natural and ok and blah blah blah. Should we legalize any relationship just b/c an individual is in love? Thats the main argument that I hear. "What's wrong with two people loving one another?" By that logic lets legalize any form of sexual perversion and recognize the individuals as a couple... Bestiality, pedophilia, etc...
That argument uses NO logic though. Think about it, two men wanting to be married is no better or worse to you than a man marrying a dog? Come on. How would a dog sign marriage papers or say their vows? We're talking about two consenting people of legal age, let's not invent crazy scenarios in an effort to trivialize it.
Homosexuality is more natural than you give it credit for. It has been occuring in people and animals since the beginning of time. The only reason you think it is unnatural is because you have heard since childhood that homosexuality is wrong. (i believe it is in Leviticus where it states that homos should be put to death)
EDIT" I shouldn't say it contains "no logic" since you're a logical person but it's a very spurious argument.
The only reason you fail to see the logic is b/c you accept the lifestyle. Given the fact that homosexuality only occurs in about 1% of the population proves it is unnatural. You also realize that it is not only religious people that see it as unnatural. Also we have moved on from gay marriage. The last you and I were talking about was dealing with the government recognizing homosexuals as couples not a marriage. Personally I see homosexuality, pedophilia and bestiality all as being forms of sexual perversion. They are abnormal. Your argument about how long things have been happening really plays no bearing in this point b/c all forms of perversion have been around for thousands of years. It still doesn't make it right. Here is what scares me: 50 years ago you wouldn't have been arguing about this. The problem with secular morality is that it is constantly changing and rarely if ever for the better. So 50 years from now will our society accept pedophilia as well? There are societies that have.
Well, if homosexuality's rarity in the face of common marriages means it is unnatural, then that means being left-handed is unnatural too?
50 years ago we might also have been bitching about how black people should always ride at the back of the bus.
Yeah it is unnatural... I don't see why you would want to debate the meaning of that word when you defended debris use of parasite. You can't say that sexual orientation and race are the same. Even blacks get ticked off when that gets started.
Being left-handed is perfectly natural to a leftie.
When did i say race and sexual orientation were the same? You said the problem with secular morality was that it is always changing. I simply meant that generations have a way of looking at things differently, and i don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.
People of the time of the Bible were fine with slavery, nowadays we are not. Has our perspective as a society on that matter changed for the worse? I don't think so, i think we learn more as we go.
And being a pedophile is natural to a pedophile, but we aren't dealing with what is natural to an individual. We are dealing with what is natural in the world we live. If you sprout an extra hand should we say that that is natural as well?
You used race as a counterargument as to how shifting morals is a good thing and seeing that the topic is dealing with homosexuality then our shifting view is a good thing as well. Personally I don't see it as that and the mindset that thinks its ok actually scares me when I think of the morality of the next few generations. I have a four month old and to think of the stuff she will have to see and deal with when she gets older bothers me greatly.[quote]In my final meeting with the gods from the heavens above, as they spoke to me and hit me with the power of the Ultimate Warrior, they told me Exit stage left! Exit stage rigAre you sure you want to delete this post? Yes | No - 2 years 1 month ago
- Posts: 4622
DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Its the fact that our government recognizes them as a couple. It is still in some form or fashion approving of the relationship.
And that's bad because it goes against the bible?
Well yes, but its completely unnatural. The only reason you think its ok is b/c you have heard from elementary age that its natural and ok and blah blah blah. Should we legalize any relationship just b/c an individual is in love? Thats the main argument that I hear. "What's wrong with two people loving one another?" By that logic lets legalize any form of sexual perversion and recognize the individuals as a couple... Bestiality, pedophilia, etc...
That argument uses NO logic though. Think about it, two men wanting to be married is no better or worse to you than a man marrying a dog? Come on. How would a dog sign marriage papers or say their vows? We're talking about two consenting people of legal age, let's not invent crazy scenarios in an effort to trivialize it.
Homosexuality is more natural than you give it credit for. It has been occuring in people and animals since the beginning of time. The only reason you think it is unnatural is because you have heard since childhood that homosexuality is wrong. (i believe it is in Leviticus where it states that homos should be put to death)
EDIT" I shouldn't say it contains "no logic" since you're a logical person but it's a very spurious argument.
The only reason you fail to see the logic is b/c you accept the lifestyle. Given the fact that homosexuality only occurs in about 1% of the population proves it is unnatural. You also realize that it is not only religious people that see it as unnatural. Also we have moved on from gay marriage. The last you and I were talking about was dealing with the government recognizing homosexuals as couples not a marriage. Personally I see homosexuality, pedophilia and bestiality all as being forms of sexual perversion. They are abnormal. Your argument about how long things have been happening really plays no bearing in this point b/c all forms of perversion have been around for thousands of years. It still doesn't make it right. Here is what scares me: 50 years ago you wouldn't have been arguing about this. The problem with secular morality is that it is constantly changing and rarely if ever for the better. So 50 years from now will our society accept pedophilia as well? There are societies that have.
Well, if homosexuality's rarity in the face of common marriages means it is unnatural, then that means being left-handed is unnatural too?
50 years ago we might also have been bitching about how black people should always ride at the back of the bus.
Yeah it is unnatural... I don't see why you would want to debate the meaning of that word when you defended debris use of parasite. You can't say that sexual orientation and race are the same. Even blacks get ticked off when that gets started.
Being left-handed is perfectly natural to a leftie.
When did i say race and sexual orientation were the same? You said the problem with secular morality was that it is always changing. I simply meant that generations have a way of looking at things differently, and i don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.
People of the time of the Bible were fine with slavery, nowadays we are not. Has our perspective as a society on that matter changed for the worse? I don't think so, i think we learn more as we go.
And being a pedophile is natural to a pedophile, but we aren't dealing with what is natural to an individual. We are dealing with what is natural in the world we live. If you sprout an extra hand should we say that that is natural as well?
You used race as a counterargument as to how shifting morals is a good thing and seeing that the topic is dealing with homosexuality then our shifting view is a good thing as well. Personally I don't see it as that and the mindset that thinks its ok actually scares me when I think of the morality of the next few generations. I have a four month old and to think of the stuff she will have to see and deal with when she gets older bothers me greatly.
Shifting morals may not ALWAYS be good, but the fact of the matter is we're moving forward in my opinion. At one time it was ok to sell your daughter to a stranger for profit, it was ok to beat your wife, nowadays this behavior is abhorrent to the vast majority of us.
What if your daughter grows up to be a happy, intelligent lesbian? Would you be any less proud of her? Would you think of her as immoral and wicked? I don't have kids but if i had a lesbian daughter i wouldn't think of her any differently than of she were straight.
Anyways, i will concede the last word on this to you since we have beaten this subject pretty hard.Are you sure you want to delete this post? Yes | No - 2 years 1 month ago
- Posts: 2852
Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Shazbot wrote:DeliGuy wrote:Its the fact that our government recognizes them as a couple. It is still in some form or fashion approving of the relationship.
And that's bad because it goes against the bible?
Well yes, but its completely unnatural. The only reason you think its ok is b/c you have heard from elementary age that its natural and ok and blah blah blah. Should we legalize any relationship just b/c an individual is in love? Thats the main argument that I hear. "What's wrong with two people loving one another?" By that logic lets legalize any form of sexual perversion and recognize the individuals as a couple... Bestiality, pedophilia, etc...
That argument uses NO logic though. Think about it, two men wanting to be married is no better or worse to you than a man marrying a dog? Come on. How would a dog sign marriage papers or say their vows? We're talking about two consenting people of legal age, let's not invent crazy scenarios in an effort to trivialize it.
Homosexuality is more natural than you give it credit for. It has been occuring in people and animals since the beginning of time. The only reason you think it is unnatural is because you have heard since childhood that homosexuality is wrong. (i believe it is in Leviticus where it states that homos should be put to death)
EDIT" I shouldn't say it contains "no logic" since you're a logical person but it's a very spurious argument.
The only reason you fail to see the logic is b/c you accept the lifestyle. Given the fact that homosexuality only occurs in about 1% of the population proves it is unnatural. You also realize that it is not only religious people that see it as unnatural. Also we have moved on from gay marriage. The last you and I were talking about was dealing with the government recognizing homosexuals as couples not a marriage. Personally I see homosexuality, pedophilia and bestiality all as being forms of sexual perversion. They are abnormal. Your argument about how long things have been happening really plays no bearing in this point b/c all forms of perversion have been around for thousands of years. It still doesn't make it right. Here is what scares me: 50 years ago you wouldn't have been arguing about this. The problem with secular morality is that it is constantly changing and rarely if ever for the better. So 50 years from now will our society accept pedophilia as well? There are societies that have.
Well, if homosexuality's rarity in the face of common marriages means it is unnatural, then that means being left-handed is unnatural too?
50 years ago we might also have been bitching about how black people should always ride at the back of the bus.
Yeah it is unnatural... I don't see why you would want to debate the meaning of that word when you defended debris use of parasite. You can't say that sexual orientation and race are the same. Even blacks get ticked off when that gets started.
Being left-handed is perfectly natural to a leftie.
When did i say race and sexual orientation were the same? You said the problem with secular morality was that it is always changing. I simply meant that generations have a way of looking at things differently, and i don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.
People of the time of the Bible were fine with slavery, nowadays we are not. Has our perspective as a society on that matter changed for the worse? I don't think so, i think we learn more as we go.
And being a pedophile is natural to a pedophile, but we aren't dealing with what is natural to an individual. We are dealing with what is natural in the world we live. If you sprout an extra hand should we say that that is natural as well?
You used race as a counterargument as to how shifting morals is a good thing and seeing that the topic is dealing with homosexuality then our shifting view is a good thing as well. Personally I don't see it as that and the mindset that thinks its ok actually scares me when I think of the morality of the next few generations. I have a four month old and to think of the stuff she will have to see and deal with when she gets older bothers me greatly.
Shifting morals may not ALWAYS be good, but the fact of the matter is we're moving forward in my opinion. At one time it was ok to sell your daughter to a stranger for profit, it was ok to beat your wife, nowadays this behavior is abhorrent to the vast majority of us.
What if your daughter grows up to be a happy, intelligent lesbian? Would you be any less proud of her? Would you think of her as immoral and wicked? I don't have kids but if i had a lesbian daughter i wouldn't think of her any differently than of she were straight.
Anyways, i will concede the last word on this to you since we have beaten this subject pretty hard.
I agree on letting this go. To answer your question. No I wouldn't be proud of her and yes I would think of her as immoral and wicked, but I would still love her more than anything.[quote]In my final meeting with the gods from the heavens above, as they spoke to me and hit me with the power of the Ultimate Warrior, they told me Exit stage left! Exit stage rigAre you sure you want to delete this post? Yes | No
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