• Ilikethepixies
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    		 I've read/heard a few different things on the perfunctory nature of words and how they fail to convey emotions or abstract thoughts well.

    Here is why: Words are symbols which have specific, assigned meanings: the denotative, which is the universally accepted definition of the word, and the connotative, which is the popular understanding of the word.

    So for example, gay first meant something along the lines of "cheery" or "joyful", but eventually the connotative meaning changed and became the dominant understanding of the word, which meant "homosexual". Therefore, this inert symbol completely changed meanings in a generation.

    Furthermore, words came into being as a tool for survival. Early man needed a way of communicating "there's shelter over there" or "watch out for the sabertooth tiger" or "eat these berries". Survival stuff, you know?

    But when it comes to more abstract things like "love", "remorse", "respect" or something being "bittersweet", words are clunky and hard to work with. What about those feelings we have that there are no words for? All we are stuck with is saying something like "I kinda felt down today."

    Well the truth of the matter is that you felt something much more complex and subtle than just feeling "down", but there is no way to describe that. That, I think, is why visual art and music are so popular. They enable us to communicate things that there aren't any words for. For example, Edvard Munch's "The Scream":



    The picture speaks for itself in a way that 100 pages of description could never come close to matching.

    Is this interesting to you? Probably not. If you are interested in this stuff though, you're either pirateninja6 or mattnash. Hopefully someone will surprise me.
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  • elron
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    • 3 years 9 months ago
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    		 Very interesting stuff. In college I read Roland Barthes' "Image-Music-Text" (I still own a copy) which focuses on this subject.
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  • Ilikethepixies
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    		 Ooh, I will have to check that out.

    Or you can send it to me for your karmic reward which will be determined later.
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  • MattNash
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    		 The key comes to being able to empathize. If you say to someone "I feel down today", they should be relate because they themselves have most likely felt the many complex emotions that attribute to "feeling down". Of course, if you say that to someone who has no emotion (like an android or Vulcan or something), they would be completely confused. They might even say something like, "Well if you were feeling down, then why not stand up, climb a ladder or walk up a hill to increase your elevation?"
    Same goes for any other word representing a complex thought or emotion. We all know what "love", "remorse" and "respect" is because we have all felt "love", "remorse" and "respect". Words can't accurately describe those feelings, but we have our own feelings of relation that are attributed to those words.


    Now, about the "Scream" picture, why is he screaming? He's on a pier overlooking a body of water under a sunset. What's there to scream about? And to be honest, it doesn't really look like he is screaming, more like he's saying, "Oh, no!" or "Whoops!" Maybe he accidentally dropped his car-keys in the water, or he suddenly realized he left the oven on. And what about that guy in the background, what's he doing? I got it! The man in the background is trying to kill him, and the screamer is running away, shouting for help.
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  • Ilikethepixies
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    		 I think the Scream painting may be a tad bit more universal and heavy than you say, MattNash.

    As to your "attribution" of feelings to words, that makes sense, but that doesn't account that there are two different people with two very different experiences that are both being referred to as "feeling down".

    A person takes with them all their past experiences with them an incorporates them into their understanding of the world, so its impossible for two people to be talking about the same thing. Even Siamese twins, because one has a different perspective than the other.
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  • MattNash
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    Ilikethepixies wrote:
    I think the Scream painting may be a tad bit more universal and heavy than you say, MattNash.


    Please, call me Matt :D

    Ilikethepixies wrote:
    As to your "attribution" of feelings to words, that makes sense, but that doesn't account that there are two different people with two very different experiences that are both being referred to as "feeling down".

    A person takes with them all their past experiences with them an incorporates them into their understanding of the world, so its impossible for two people to be talking about the same thing. Even Siamese twins, because one has a different perspective than the other.


    Not really, we all "felt down" on numerous occasions, and we all have somewhat of a universal understanding to know what "feeling down" is. And there's also different levels of "feeling down", "felling down" isn't as bad as "feeling like shit", but worse then "feeling half empty". And also, that's where conversation comes in, usually when somebody tells you their feeling sad, you can ask why, and then they tell you why. Then you can relate. There's not really two different things because we've all felt all the different levels of sadness and all the different levels of happiness.
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  • Ilikethepixies
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    		 No, you are still using these superficial thoughts. Your thoughts are trapped in words.

    Seriously, I didn't realize it until it was pointed out to me how my whole experience is trapped in the framework of words. They are no longer a helpful tool but how we understand all of life.
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  • MattNash
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    		 Here, does this help?
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  • Ilikethepixies
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    		 you ass.
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  • Timown
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    Ilikethepixies wrote:




    have you not thought that maybe he isn't screaming at all, but hearing someone, or many people, screaming? hence the hands covering his ears
    BLUE
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  • MattNash
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    Timown wrote:
    Ilikethepixies wrote:




    have you not thought that maybe he isn't screaming at all, but hearing someone, or many people, screaming? hence the hands covering his ears


    I still think that shadowy figure in the background has something to do with it.
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  • Ilikethepixies
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    		 I think he's having a personal realization about nature, the world and his place within it.

    A lot of people also think its about isolation.

    To me, the best part is the red strip on the right (it isnt included in this painting).

    I read in an interview that Munch said the painting is based on a real event and that he absolutely intended on painting the red strip on the right, which most people mistakenly think shouldn't be there.

    That's the real mysterious part about it to me. Let me see if I can find a version of it with the red strip...

    Here we go:



    WhAT IS THAT RED STRIP SUPPOSED TO BE/REPRESENT?
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  • elron
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    		 I've never noticed the red line before. To me, coupled with the sunset the red line looks like a pole, and the sunset sky looks like a flag waving. Maybe it could represent a distress signal or cry for help...Darkness is coming...the shadowy figure could be death approaching...the bridge may be a transition from life to death...who knows? That's why it's an interesting painting. Scream...Leaves a lot open for interpretation...hmmm
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  • Ilikethepixies
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    		 I never thought of it looking like a flag before, haha.

    I see it more like if someone's life were a bunch of stills on a movie reel... that red one is coming and its all blank... its over.

    I get so psyched on this painting sometimes.
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  • MattNash
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    		 Well shit, in the full painting, there's actually two shadowy figures in the background. Maybe they represent the id and superego.
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  • Ilikethepixies
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    		 Haha.

    I think they're just people walking on the bridge.
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  • Timown
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    		 or two pay-per-view telescopes
    BLUE
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  • MattNash
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    Ilikethepixies wrote:
    I think they're just people walking on the bridge.


    No, Pixies. Nothing in that picture "just is". It's all there for a reason, whether Munch intended it consciously or unconsciously.
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  • Ilikethepixies
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    		 I think its more realistic than you do. I think that's how he saw himself and at that moment there happened to be people on the bridge with him.

    That's what it is to me... its capturing a very intense moment.
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  • kayvee
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    • 3 years 9 months ago
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    		 getting back to the subject,

    yeah, I hate talking. Talking is stupid.
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