• 1 year 5 months ago
    • Posts: 21
    This headline is misleading. Zimmerman wasn't found innocent. He was found not guilty and acquitted. Big difference between the two rulings. And there is plenty of evidence Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. The media has manipulated a lot of the trial, but if you watched the train and listened to the testimony, you'd see it was self-defense.

    The only reason Zimmerman followed Martin, was the fact that there were THREE household break ins that week. He was on the phone to find where Martin was heading, not to confront. Zimmerman did stop when dispatch told him to. Zimmerman only got out his car to check on the address he was at, it wasn't visible from his vehicle. Thats when Martin confronted Zimmerman. Martin's girlfriend confirmed this with her phone call. From the phone call you hear Martin yell at Zimmerman, and then a fight.

    Martin somehow got on Zimmerman's chest, pinned him down, and started pounding Zimmerman's head on the concrete. Evidence supports the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and was striking him from injuries to Martin's knuckles. Martin then found and pulled out Zimmerman's gun, they fought over the gun, Zimmerman got control and shot Martin in self-defense.

    The facts are there if you're willing to do your own research and not take a news articles word for it.
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      • 1 year 5 months ago
      • Posts: 521
      I kinda recall this story and I thought it was an outrage and that these two thugs should burn for being so horrific to shoot a baby because a woman didn't have money to give them. However if it's the same one I'm thinking of, it turned out to be a complete fabrication and that the woman...who was like 21 had killed her own baby and had another child when she was a teenager that died also...prolly under mysterious circumstances.

      Ghost of Vapor wrote:
      I didn't follow this story AT ALL. I will never understand it's importance to those of us not involved with it. Especially in light of so many other, far more horrific actions taken around this time.

      When we were traveling home from Florida, we stayed one night in Brunswick, Ga. That very day, two teens had approached a woman with her 13 month old child for money, before shooting her child in the face from point blank range.

      Where is the media outrage for this child and it's mother?
      "It lies in the valley of the vision, where the slain are not slain with the sword. In the darkest shadows of light, there you'll find a door..."
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        • 1 year 5 months ago
        • Posts: 1471
        bklynbren wrote:
        Derk wrote:
        bklynbren wrote:
        Travon had been texting about guns and being a gangster, so if that’s true I say good riddance. I'd rather it be him than some innocent child cought in his cross fire.


        He was a 17-year-old kid. Much like the kids you've described, that was someone's son walking home, only to be stalked, profiled, and killed.

        Perhaps you were perfect when you were seventeen, but most of us weren't. I can personally say I did/said tons of stupid shit at seventeen that I cringe at now. Most don't deserve to be shot for making these adolescent mistakes.

        I understand everyone has an opinion on everything, and while I respect that, yours makes you sound painfully ignorant.


        Oh so you want to indirectly call me ignorant? That makes you sound painfully like a pussy!

        Regarding Travon, I'll admit I didn't like how it all went down. There were mistakes made on both sides; Zimmerman should not have been following Travon, and when confronted Travon shouldn't have tried to beat him up. When was the last time you tried to kick a neighborhood watches ass just because they approached you? I would be more likely to answer the question and maybe even thank them for trying to help the neighborhood. And yes I was almost perfect when I was a teen and I'm proud of that. If you did stupid shit when you were a teen that's your own fault, I don't relate nor tolorate all the bullshit these kids are doing now.

        This is how you sound to me...he's a good boy, I mean I know he's a gangster now and deals with guns and stuff but he's only seventeen, after he gets all the gangbanging out of his system he'll eventually become a contributing member of society....rediculous, if he was my son I would have raised him right and he would have never been shot that day!


        After reading your response, I won't "indirectly" call you ignorant, I will directly tell you: You're ignorant. After reading your initial response, you came across like someone who was trying too hard to come across as a 'tough guy'. After the 'pussy' comment, that was confirmed.

        I HIGHLY doubt you were 'almost perfect' as a teen. None of us were, and if your ego is so large that you assume you were, then I'm sorry for that. Then you say that Zimmerman shouldn't have followed Trayvon, only to follow-up with "Trayvon shouldn't have tried to beat him up." If someone is stalking you, you're going to go into defense mode. I don't blame Trayvon a bit, certainly when Zimmerman had a past of singling out/profiling black men. Zimmerman was told to back off. He did not. He was just another idiot with a gun and felt like a cowboy because he was armed. What it boils down to, in my opinion, is that he got his ass kicked by a kid, so he shot/killed him for it.

        I've personally heard nothing about him being a member of a gang. I'm sure some right-wing websites have it on there, but I hardly consider those online sewers to be legit news. The only gang he seemed to be in is the one that arms themselves with Skittles and iced tea.

        You bring up a good point. What if he was your son. What would you do? Would you just say "good riddance" and move on? It's easy to say how you'd raise a kid "right" if they're not your kids.
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          • 1 year 5 months ago
          • Posts: 1784
          bassman21 wrote:

          This case wasn't about Zimmerman following Martin. It wasn't even IF he confronted him. It was about rather or not he feared for his life when Martin was on top beating the crap out of him.


          From listening to the 911 tape, it didn't sound to me like Martin was winning the fight at all. But, we can't really know so I'll let that go. What I'll focus on is how brilliant the defense was in getting things to be framed that way. The case should have been about whether Zimmerman incited violence. He did. The violence led to death. And I do not think that's OK.

          He could have handled the whole thing differently, but apparently there is no training required to be a neighborhood watchman, and he didn't know how to approach the situation without seeming like a threat. At very best, he is incompetent in that capacity and I very seriously hope he is not allowed to continue.

          As far as sticking around, I know that when someone I don't know is following me, I don't want them to know where I live, so I avoid going home until they're off my trail.

          Regarding character assassination:
          Marijuana legalization is supported by a significant portion of the adult population in this country. Nearly half of all high school kids have had it.
          Wanting a gun is a complicated matter. But one thing I hear about a lot of shooting cases is "If only he had a gun, he would have been able to defend himself!" Maybe Martin should have had a gun too, and been able to defend himself.

          Most hilarious to me is that Zimmerman now feels he has to be cautious of "vigilantes who want to take the law into their own hands" and maybe follow him and shoot him unjustly.
          tangspot2 wrote:
          Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch
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            • 1 year 5 months ago
            • Posts: 892
            bassman21 wrote:
            I honestly don't think most people understand this case. Most of the anti Zimmerman people I have spoke with know very little about it. They're just jumping on the bandwagon. The general consensus is if you're black and/or you're a liberal you don't think justice was served. Here are some facts.

            This case wasn't about Zimmerman following Martin. It wasn't even IF he confronted him. It was about rather or not he feared for his life when Martin was on top beating the crap out of him. Zimmerman had cuts on his head consistent to having it smashed into the sidewalk. There was eye witness that saw Martin on top doing this as well as punching "MA style". Zimmerman had a broken nose, Martin only had a small abrasion on his hand. Zimmerman's back was wet indicating he was on the ground on his back. The jury's job was to determine if Zimmerman was justified in shooting Martin while he was on top beating him. The answer to that is yes. When you get into a fight with someone you're supposed to stop hitting them once they hit the ground. Martin was on top beating him. At what point does a person say enough is enough as their head is being smashing into the concrete and they are being repeatedly punched? People have died from being beaten and under these circumstances it was justified under Florida law to shoot Martin if he fear for his life.

            The media has created this. They portrayed Martin as a innocent child by showing pictures when he was 14 years old. Martin was much older, bigger and meaner when he was shot. The pictures of Zimmerman was when he was much larger. At the time of the confrontation he was much thinner and was shorter than Martin. Martin had the "gansta" mentality. He was on suspension from school when he was shot for being in possession of marijuana. There are pictures online of him smoking it. He sent text about wanting to get a gun. There is a video of him refereeing a street fight. His girlfriend admitting he called Zimmerman a "creepy ass cracker". None of this was known at first and the public already formed an opinion of Zimmerman and Martin.

            This is enough for now.


            I think you hit the nail on the head with this one! Also, good point about the pictures, they always use baby picks.
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              • 1 year 5 months ago
              • Posts: 1784
              bassman after reading the following, I understand your point better:
              wrote:
              Florida's Stand Your Ground laws, which demand that authorities have proof that refute a self-defense claim before arresting or trying someone claiming self-defense, have come under heavy criticism during and after the George Zimmerman trial.


              The law was correctly enforced, according to itself. But I think that's a really bad law, and here's why. It removes the right to presumption of innocence until proven guilty. It says that anyone can decide off the cuff that somebody else is guilty and "self-defense" himself. Whether or not this case was decided correctly, future terrible outcomes are discouraged in no way whatsoever.
              tangspot2 wrote:
              Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch
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                • 1 year 5 months ago
                • Posts: 892
                Derk wrote:
                bklynbren wrote:
                Derk wrote:
                bklynbren wrote:
                Travon had been texting about guns and being a gangster, so if that’s true I say good riddance. I'd rather it be him than some innocent child cought in his cross fire.


                He was a 17-year-old kid. Much like the kids you've described, that was someone's son walking home, only to be stalked, profiled, and killed.

                Perhaps you were perfect when you were seventeen, but most of us weren't. I can personally say I did/said tons of stupid shit at seventeen that I cringe at now. Most don't deserve to be shot for making these adolescent mistakes.

                I understand everyone has an opinion on everything, and while I respect that, yours makes you sound painfully ignorant.


                Oh so you want to indirectly call me ignorant? That makes you sound painfully like a pussy!

                Regarding Travon, I'll admit I didn't like how it all went down. There were mistakes made on both sides; Zimmerman should not have been following Travon, and when confronted Travon shouldn't have tried to beat him up. When was the last time you tried to kick a neighborhood watches ass just because they approached you? I would be more likely to answer the question and maybe even thank them for trying to help the neighborhood. And yes I was almost perfect when I was a teen and I'm proud of that. If you did stupid shit when you were a teen that's your own fault, I don't relate nor tolorate all the bullshit these kids are doing now.

                This is how you sound to me...he's a good boy, I mean I know he's a gangster now and deals with guns and stuff but he's only seventeen, after he gets all the gangbanging out of his system he'll eventually become a contributing member of society....rediculous, if he was my son I would have raised him right and he would have never been shot that day!


                After reading your response, I won't "indirectly" call you ignorant, I will directly tell you: You're ignorant. After reading your initial response, you came across like someone who was trying too hard to come across as a 'tough guy'. After the 'pussy' comment, that was confirmed.

                I HIGHLY doubt you were 'almost perfect' as a teen. None of us were, and if your ego is so large that you assume you were, then I'm sorry for that. Then you say that Zimmerman shouldn't have followed Trayvon, only to follow-up with "Trayvon shouldn't have tried to beat him up." If someone is stalking you, you're going to go into defense mode. I don't blame Trayvon a bit, certainly when Zimmerman had a past of singling out/profiling black men. Zimmerman was told to back off. He did not. He was just another idiot with a gun and felt like a cowboy because he was armed. What it boils down to, in my opinion, is that he got his ass kicked by a kid, so he shot/killed him for it.

                I've personally heard nothing about him being a member of a gang. I'm sure some right-wing websites have it on there, but I hardly consider those online sewers to be legit news. The only gang he seemed to be in is the one that arms themselves with Skittles and iced tea.



                I’m glad to see you finally grew a pair and directly insulted me, thanks I appreciate that. Maybe I came across as a tough guy because you felt intimidated, sorry for that I’m not trying to be a bully. Also, I’m sorry to have to break the news to you again, but I was in fact almost perfect, that’s often what happens when your parents raise you right. It’s not so much ego as it is pride in a job well done.

                I did say Zimmerman shouldn’t have been following Travon because like you said, the police told him to back off; everyone is aware of that fact. What would I have done? If someone was following me I would confront them in a gentlemanly manner, there would be no need for violence in this kind of situation. I won’t activate “self defense mode” or whatever that is; I would have simply called the police if I needed to. You don’t blame Travon a bit? So it’s o.k. for Travon to physically attack someone just because they were following him. Well that philosophy didn’t work out to well in the real life application, so I think most would agree that Travon SHOULD be blamed for making a poor and in this case deadly decision.

                All that text message info and social media info was released to the media so there is no questioning its legitimacy. And when you take a look at all of that stuff you begin to see Travon for what he really was, not the young innocent child from his televised photo, but a self proclaimed “gangster” who was suspended from school and probably up to no good most of the time.

                On another note, If Zimmerman had looked bigger and stronger than Travon, Travon would have never tried fight with him, but he thought it would be easy to kick some “cracker” ass. That’s why I love the saying God made Man and Cult Made them equal.
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                  • 1 year 5 months ago
                  • Posts: 1784
                  Institutional racism, while not the same as individual racism, is still racism.

                  Why does Martin think it's good to be a gangster? Because that is the world and culture that surrounded him. That isn't his fault. I'm not saying someone like him should be able to do whatever he wants without consequences. I'm saying that it doesn't mean he is an inherently bad person. And that as a society, we allow that kind of negative culture to exist; and promote it; and have not yet addressed those problems effectively; and are unconcerned about doing so. That's institutional racism. And it goes against basic principles of democracy and Christianity and just plain old human compassion.
                  tangspot2 wrote:
                  Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch
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                    • 1 year 5 months ago
                    • Posts: 892
                    stake n sheak wrote:
                    Institutional racism, while not the same as individual racism, is still racism.

                    Why does Martin think it's good to be a gangster? Because that is the world and culture that surrounded him. That isn't his fault. I'm not saying someone like him should be able to do whatever he wants without consequences. I'm saying that it doesn't mean he is an inherently bad person. And that as a society, we allow that kind of negative culture to exist; and promote it; and have not yet addressed those problems effectively; and are unconcerned about doing so. That's institutional racism. And it goes against basic principles of democracy and Christianity and just plain old human compassion.


                    That's true, and unfortunately I don't think we will see a huge change in society during our lifetime. But there are much worst places to live, that's why every day I thank god that I was born in the good old USA!
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                      • 1 year 5 months ago
                      • Posts: 4553
                      You guys are doing a lot of speculating. The speculation that Martin was the aggressor is supported by eye witness testimony and physical evidence. There is no physical evidence that Zimmerman was the aggressor. As I stated the only injury to Martin was a small abrasion on his hand and of course the gun shot. Zimmerman had injuries consistent to someone being beaten. There are no eye witnesses or physical evidence to back up the claims you guys are making. Some of your theories could be true, but there was no proof to back it up which is why he was acquitted.
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                        • 1 year 5 months ago
                        • Posts: 21
                        Proof is always the burden of the State.
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                          • 1 year 5 months ago
                          • Posts: 1784
                          bassman21 wrote:
                          You guys are doing a lot of speculating.

                          Zimmerman scared Martin before the direct confrontation. Can we at least agree that that is a fact?

                          If so, why is it OK for Zimmerman to defend himself, but not for Martin? Because Martin assaulted first? Standing your ground law doesn't say you have to take the first hit, or retreat. I guess it's only something you're allowed to do if you have a gun.

                          And the judge barred any discussion of race, which is completely insane.
                          tangspot2 wrote:
                          Mrs. stake you say some nasty on my threads. Dirty bitch
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                            • 1 year 5 months ago
                            • Posts: 381
                            bassman21 wrote:
                            I've been hearing this "stalked, profiled, and killed" language a lot. Zimmerman was a neighborhood watchmen. There had been burglaries in their complex from young black males that resembled Martin. Martin was staying with his dad due to the suspension from school. Zimmerman never saw him there before. In Zimmerman's eyes Martin was acting erratic. We don't know in which way if at all. During the 911 call Martin had 5 minutes to get home when Zimmerman said "he's running now" Running, Martin could have been home in two minutes. At the time of the confrontation 5 minutes later Martin was only a few hundred feet from where he started running 5 minutes before. Why did he stick around while that creepy ass cracka was follwoing him? When and if Zimmerman confronted him (we don't know), why didn't Martin just tell him who he was and where he lived? Why didn't Martin call 911 if he was so scared or call his dad?

                            On a side note why in the hell was he out of the house anyway? If he was my kid he would be in his bedroom writing sentences or something for getting in trouble at school? Did Martin maybe sneak out? Was this why he was acting so suspicious to Zimmerman? So much we don't know. Like I said about this trial was about rather or not Zimmerman had the right to shoot him while being beaten by Martin and I and the jury thinks it was.


                            Yeah, he was a neighborhood watchman....who aren't supposed to have guns. Zimmerman was told not to follow Treyvon...which he did anyways. He did NOT have the right to shoot. He shouldn't even have been able to shoot. Neighborhood watch people can't carry guns. And he didn't have any reason to follow him. All he had to do was to call 911 and report what he was seeing. He should have even got out of his car. "I was just looking for an address..." Bull. Last time I checked, they can figure out where you are. Sure, it would save time by actually saying what street you're on, but it's not necessary. Zimmerman is a coward.
                            Don't pay any attention to the evil spirited and dead of heart. They're not worth your time.
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                              • 1 year 5 months ago
                              • Posts: 381
                              bassman21 wrote:
                              You guys are doing a lot of speculating. The speculation that Martin was the aggressor is supported by eye witness testimony and physical evidence. There is no physical evidence that Zimmerman was the aggressor. As I stated the only injury to Martin was a small abrasion on his hand and of course the gun shot. Zimmerman had injuries consistent to someone being beaten. There are no eye witnesses or physical evidence to back up the claims you guys are making. Some of your theories could be true, but there was no proof to back it up which is why he was acquitted.


                              There IS physical evidence that Zimmerman was the aggressor. HE GOT OUT OF HIS CAR...which he shouldn't have done. Everything that happened after that is his fault.
                              Don't pay any attention to the evil spirited and dead of heart. They're not worth your time.
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                                • 1 year 4 months ago
                                • Posts: 4553
                                "Yeah, he was a neighborhood watchman....who aren't supposed to have guns."
                                Zimmerman had a concealed handgun permit and was legally entitled to carry a gun. Our constitution also gives us the right to bear arms. There is no statue in Florida banning a neighborhood watchmen going to Target from carrying a gun. An attack can happen anywhere.

                                "Zimmerman was told not to follow Treyvon...which he did anyways"
                                Those orders were from a 911 operator who has no authority. Under the law Zimmerman could follow and even confront Martin. Stalking is only when you follow someone over a long period of time.

                                "Zimmerman scared Martin before the direct confrontation. Can we at least agree that that is a fact?"
                                No Martin had 7 minutes to go home from the time he saw Zimmerman watching him. He stuck around and was only a few hundred feet from the entrance when he attacked Zimmerman. Plus if he was so scared why didn't he call 911 or run to his dads house where he should have been anyway? I highly doubt his father wanted him out after getting suspended again from school anyway.

                                "If so, why is it OK for Zimmerman to defend himself, but not for Martin? Because Martin assaulted first? Standing your ground law doesn't say you have to take the first hit, or retreat. I guess it's only something you're allowed to do if you have a gun. "
                                If Martin keep beating Zimmerman while he was on the ground that was grounds to shoot Martin under the law. The issue with this case is there was no evidence that Martin was acting in self defense.

                                "There IS physical evidence that Zimmerman was the aggressor. HE GOT OUT OF HIS CAR...which he shouldn't have done. Everything that happened after that is his fault. "
                                So a person isn't allowed to get out of their car in a complex they live in? Zimmerman lived there, he had every right to walk down that path just like Martin. Under free speech he could have even asked Martin what he was doing there. There is no law against him doing that. Just because Zimmerman was following him didn't give him the right to assault Zimmerman. If Zimmerman attacked him first then he had the right to fight back, but not just because he was being followed. If he did fight back in self defense he broke the law by continuing to beat Zimmerman while he was on the ground.

                                You guys obviously don't know the law. If I want to ask someone what they are doing in my neighborhood I can. If you don't want to answer then that is your right. If you want to ignore me that is your right. If I keep bothering you then that can be considered harassment (2 minutes isn't long). In which case you can call the police on me. I can't however attack you. You can only resort to physical violence if I attack you first.
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                                  • 1 year 4 months ago
                                  • Posts: 6889
                                  I watched this case with great interest. I've been waiting for news analysis on how the jury was addressed before deliberation.

                                  My time on a jury panel, back in 1991, taught me this - the most important moment in a trial are the instructions to the jury given by the judge just before deliberations.

                                  The instructions by Judge Debra Nelson focused the jury on the moment the gun was fired during the struggle between Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman.

                                  This is very important. While the trial allows for arguments from both the Defense and the Prosecution attorneys - it's really the Jury Instructions from the Judge that defines the outcome.

                                  From what I've been able to learn, the Prosecution did not prove their case given the Judge's instructions to the Jury on the Laws that apply in the case of "The State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman".
                                  The Eldorado is dead. Long live the Eldorado.
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                                    • 1 year 4 months ago
                                    • Posts: 2340
                                    • Forum Mod
                                    • Editor
                                    Wow, good point Eddy. I never thought of it that way.
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                                      • 1 year 4 months ago
                                      • Posts: 9837
                                      A doctored photo of Martin Luther King Jr. wearing a hoodie.

                                      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/14/martin-luther-king-trayvon-martin_n_3595719.html
                                      There is a battle between two wolves inside us all.

                                      One is evil and the other one is good. Which wolf will win? The one you feed the most.

                                      http://unbelievableyou.com/a-native-american-cherokee-story-two-wolves/
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                                        • 1 year 4 months ago
                                        • Posts: 2340
                                        • Forum Mod
                                        • Editor
                                        thecrow174 wrote:
                                        A doctored photo of Martin Luther King Jr. wearing a hoodie.

                                        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/14/martin-luther-king-trayvon-martin_n_3595719.html


                                        Nice pun.
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                                          • 1 year 4 months ago
                                          • Posts: 9837
                                          vkimo wrote:
                                          thecrow174 wrote:
                                          A doctored photo of Martin Luther King Jr. wearing a hoodie.

                                          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/14/martin-luther-king-trayvon-martin_n_3595719.html


                                          Nice pun.

                                          Thanks. Although, it wasn't intended to be a pun.
                                          There is a battle between two wolves inside us all.

                                          One is evil and the other one is good. Which wolf will win? The one you feed the most.

                                          http://unbelievableyou.com/a-native-american-cherokee-story-two-wolves/
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