mrs.link-ok plecostomus, lets settle this animation quality | Retro Junk

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mrs.link 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 1839	Ok retro junkies. Plecotomus and i have had a bit of an argument. What is considered good quality animation? See i said id like to see legend of zelda as an anime cuz i think it might be better, but he told me how dare you compare good old american quality animation to that anime crap. And then he dissed spongebob squarepants calling the animators lazy! Well, it's on then. To the public and you pleco., what do you think is "good quality animation"? I'm not trying to start a fight, i just want your "opinions".
	I am: "Female Ninja Assassin", "Kakashi's Biggest Fan", "Local Naruto Nerd", "Scarer of the Noobs", "Youngest Person on RJ", "Pirate Ninja Sailormouth of the RJ Seas", "Queen of Randomness", and "Navigator on the S.S. Retrojunk."
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mikee_kid12 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 640	Anything is good, but animation that is cheesy looking and drawn on computer and looks fake is crap, like Fairly Oddparents and My Life as a Teenage Robot. What seperates the 2 are creativity and great story telling (Fairly Oddparents wins that one) But old classic animation Liek in the Tarzan movie (yeah it used computer to polish look up and add color and what have you, but a lot of cartoons began going through that process. Anime and Looney Toon like animation is most original (of cousre it is ) Damn, its hard to explain, thats why we are alowed to post pictures! Perfect example, the work of Hanna Barbera Animation in that quality is old yet great and will always look good. Especially now that we have digital restoration. In this quality on many levels you got your Tex Avery and your Looney Toons, you got your classic Nicktoons like Ren & Stimpy and Rocko's Modern Life, this animation may be old but will always look good. The movie Tarzan looked good, and so did Eight Crazy Nights. All Disneys old animation films were excellently animated I must say. Even up to Tarzan it all looked good. Get my point? This old style animation looks great, I call it Toony I guess, since I don't know if theres an actual name for this old style animation which is being used less and less, and we and our kids are being left with crap like this. and this which show no talent or sign of hardwork whatsoever! We grew up with Looney Toons, and even all the way up through the 90's animation looked great. We have gotten lazy and rely to much on this Which can pump out a highly beautifully restored and remastered Looney Toons episode, or make a fully 3-D rendered world like one movie Incredibles, Finding Nemo, Shreck, all good stuff. Let me bring it back down though, I used to watch Batman the animated series, Rescue Rangers, all the retro stuff, if your not familiar with it, thats what this site is here for. Now onto Spongebob, its not bad, its like an underwater Rocko's Modern Life with its animation style, ill admit, they do use some crappy computer effects sometimes, but oh well. At least it looks like this and not like this see the difference in the work and style? To get into all of it and really break it down would take forever, almost a whole childhood of understanding, like from the 1940's-1999, 2000 was kind of the mark for pumping out Teenage Robot crap. Sponge came out in 99........does that have any significance? I DON'T KNOW!!!!! It's all up to a persons tastes, and what generation they are from. I prefer anything Spongebob animation style and above, like Looney Toons. But thats just me. I'm not even going to get into anime....... I kind of got lost in whatever point I was "trying" to make, Looney and Barbera even Songe style= Good animation, Teengae Robot style=pure glorified goat eaten and shat out twice shit that farmer Brown stepped in. Did I waste my time with this post....more than likely, so heres a picture of my hero, ANdy Dick....why? because I can.........

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mrs.link 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 1839	Thank you mikee_kid12!!! You took the words straight from my mouth, but i have to say, even though the hanna barbera cartoons do look old and great, i have to say, i was never a fan of the cartoons, when it comes to the drawing and storylines. But the thing about the fairly oddparents is true. The animation is a complete nightmare!! And i agree with you on those pics of my life as a tennage robot, and fruit salad island, the storyline is terribly and the animation is just as worst. But i want to say something though, even if it didnt take much effort to draw cartoons, as long as it looks great and is unique, its good with me. And i have to say, i do prefer loony toons (classics, they still make me laugh!!) but i do very much enjoy things like spongebob and anime. Whether it took effort or not, i still think it looks pretty and cool.Or pretty cool. We need more cartoons like loony toons and retro stuff though. Sometimes too much of a good thing can kind of corrupt your mind. People and kids still need to know how to laugh at an anvil falling on a persons head as a light joke, and not an anvil falling on a kid's head, with blood spurting out and the intention was murder. Yes, now, on to the next person please.
	I am: "Female Ninja Assassin", "Kakashi's Biggest Fan", "Local Naruto Nerd", "Scarer of the Noobs", "Youngest Person on RJ", "Pirate Ninja Sailormouth of the RJ Seas", "Queen of Randomness", and "Navigator on the S.S. Retrojunk."
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System 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 74809	Well, given that The Legend of Zelda is anime-style to begin with, and that Nintendo has a Japanese animation studio (not to mention the number of manga which have been based on various Zelda games), it would seem likely that there will be a TLOZ anime in the near future. As for being low-quality? Anything would be better than the old Zelda cartoon, so excuuuuse ME, Princess!

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mrs.link 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 1839	KhrisK wrote: Well, given that The Legend of Zelda is anime-style to begin with, and that Nintendo has a Japanese animation studio (not to mention the number of manga which have been based on various Zelda games), it would seem likely that there will be a TLOZ anime in the near future. As for being low-quality? Anything would be better than the old Zelda cartoon, so excuuuuse ME, Princess! see pleco.? People do think zelda would be a better anime than its original self!!wait a sec....there are zelda manga!!!!omg!!!!good bye!!
	I am: "Female Ninja Assassin", "Kakashi's Biggest Fan", "Local Naruto Nerd", "Scarer of the Noobs", "Youngest Person on RJ", "Pirate Ninja Sailormouth of the RJ Seas", "Queen of Randomness", and "Navigator on the S.S. Retrojunk."
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Plecostomus 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 23	Observe what I have stated long ago KhrisK on The Legend of Zelda comment board. The only reason I think the Japanese should create a Zelda cartoon was because Zelda is an anime game! HOWEVER!!! Is total lazy crap compared to Source: http://www.zelda.com You see the difference! These are two images from two Gamecube games. The first is a screenshot from Zelda the Wind Walker and the second is from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. Do you see the shift in quality! Of course the first one was made in a special style for a certain reason(s). First of which was difference of appearance. Although I found this style of graphics very disturbing when the predecessors were trying to make the game as realistic as possible. Wind Walker Predecessor: Ocarina of Time: At the time, this was to be considered "good" to "fair" graphics. The second reason Wind Walker was created in this style graphics was ease of programming and art. Less time could be placed into detail. Since people argue that this was not the primary reason this style was employed, I will not continue the argument on this point. But do: it is easier to implement the style used in Wind Walker. As for the quality extent of the current Zelda cartoon, it is most definitely not the worst style of artwork implemented today. Look at cartoons such as Ed, Edd 'n Eddy, Spongebob Squarepants (I will touch more on this in a minute), and even animes such as Pokemon. All lacking quality, care, and to be quite honest, believability. Ah, the most important part of "quality." The effort made towards believability. Sure, if somebody draws a dragon or an orc we can immediately rule out believability of the plot subject, but not believability in an artificial world. If proportions are attempted drawn correctly to certain elements we are asked to believe as parallels to something that may exist in our world (lets say: humans), then they should draw them in the shape of a human. Some cartoons I can point out do this fairly well (most of the time) are: C.O.P.S., Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Jem, Captain Planet, etc. But if we wish to apply distortions to create characters we have shows like: Hanna Barbera cartoons, Sonic The Hedgehog, Looney Toons, InuYasha (most anime), etc. Anime is included in this group because we have these obvious distortions: Eyes are, for some reason, HUGE. Mouths occasionally disappear or warp to an impossible form. Eyes may become larger or detach from head in surprise. Bubbles or large coagulations secrete from the head to emphasize characters nervous or embarrassed emotion (Just watch Pokemon). THESE ARE NOT BAD, these are characters. Unfortunately, these do not take nearly as much effort as say, a realistic drawing that tries to actually capture an emotion in realistic form. In reference to old style US cartooning (referencing Sonic the Hedgehog SatAM). The obvious point of quality is not in the artwork of their characters (for they too are using exaggerated characteristics), but in the quality of their background artwork. Since Retro Junk is experiencing malfunctions (and I don't want to refer anybody to a potential competitor) the intro to Sonic the Hedgehog SatAM is currently offline. But when it is restored, watch it! Again, the characters are exaggerated, but look at the shading of the background. Look at the detail. Now watch some of the original Looney Toons. Again, look at the background! It used to take weeks to produce some of these works! Now watch some DBZ or Spongebob or Ed, Edd and Eddy. They are nothing compared to the detail implemented by the earlier! This, my friends, is quality! If you watch shows strictly for these purposes, you will notice these things as well. But do yourself a favor and DON'T! Appreciate the time incorporated in making the show you're watching and enjoy it for what it is. There are certain shows that ARE unbearable to watch because of lack of quality (I have friends that refuse to watch modern cartoons because of this strictly). But try not to only judge a cartoon on one point! These are some of the things I notice while judging cartoon subjects. ANIME: Strengths: Enticing storylines, involving character development, unique situations and plots (although not amongst themselves), sometimes detailed artwork. Characteristics mostly do well in portraying emotion of characters. Weaknesses: Although enticing storylines, some progress too slowly (soap opera like). Plots and situations sometimes become redundant amongst themselves. Some characteristics may become annoying (especially in shows like Pokemon). Redundant artwork (Pokemon especially again). TRADITIONAL WESTERN AND EUROPEAN STYLE: Strengths: Occasional excellent atmospheric and character artwork! Some plots may be unique. Few but some storylines are exciting and involving! Weaknesses: Characters may have annoying exaggerations. Some have boring or stock plots. Most modern have low quality artwork all around. Some have extremely annoying or stock expressions and mottos (Excuuuuse me Princess). As you can see, I value no certain cartoon on artwork alone (except in some extreme circumstances). I like some Anime because of excellent and addictive storylines; and I like some Western cartoons because of quality and dedication in creation. I always try to remember these points in judgment. And when I see other people not doing so (Mrs.Link, you did this on the Zelda comment board) I point this out to defend the work of other worthy titles! Any one saying a certain style of cartooning sucks all around is clearly avoiding several key criteria! That's all I have to say for now. Difference in cartooning doesn’t make it bad; it's up to the whole show to decide that. If I've said anything to hint otherwise, I may have misspoken or have intended differently. Bring up some of these cases on this board and I may have something to say about them. And for those who overly obsess in such shows... .............This is sad...

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mrs.link 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 1839	dude, i dont do that cosplay crap. its stupid and pointless. and i dont collect cards either. i just watch the shows and read the manga
	I am: "Female Ninja Assassin", "Kakashi's Biggest Fan", "Local Naruto Nerd", "Scarer of the Noobs", "Youngest Person on RJ", "Pirate Ninja Sailormouth of the RJ Seas", "Queen of Randomness", and "Navigator on the S.S. Retrojunk."
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mrs.link 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 1839	and other things too. 1:in the anime section, you mentioned something about animes being like soap operas. that i totally agree on. And in the redundant artwork, i must disagree, but i will half way give in to that. Yes pokemon is a great examply of crap animation, but trust me, if you look hard enough, there are animes out there with beautiful detail and cartooning. Most ones we see hwoever today, they are about the middle of bad to good quality. 2:in the traditional western and euro cartooning, there are a few things i agree on and disagree. 1: few plots i believe are intresting and catch my attention. The stock expressions thing is defenantly true and quote "I like some Anime because of excellent and addictive storylines; and I like some Western cartoons because of quality and dedication in creation. I always try to remember these points in judgment." un quote you. I am the exact same way. I do not like all anime. i like most and i do like some let's call them "regular" cartoons for the beauty of them or the intresting plot. And let me say a few things about certain shows, ed,edd n' eddy, my life as a teenage robot, the fairly oddparents, pokemon and a good ammount of a few other select shows, i think are terrible. In the cartooning and plot. Well pokemon started out ok but then screwed up...but anyways. When it come to spongebob however, i tested myself. i thought a while...maybe spongebob has crappy animation, but so what? I guess some people have different standards. i mean they are under the friggin sea, probably the carribean. Unless they live in a coral reef, there isnt much there. "Anime is included in this group because we have these obvious distortions: Eyes are, for some reason, HUGE. Mouths occasionally disappear or warp to an impossible form. Eyes may become larger or detach from head in surprise. Bubbles or large coagulations secrete from the head to emphasize characters nervous or embarrassed emotion (Just watch Pokemon). THESE ARE NOT BAD, these are characters. Unfortunately, these do not take nearly as much effort as say, a realistic drawing that tries to actually capture an emotion in realistic form. " and then there is this. this i have to say, i agree on. Making a silly thing that isnt even real that is a cartoon look like it has really emotion, is indeed, alot harder. But tell me, do you find any of these cartoons any more? I cant really say that i can find any....its like they have become extinct! but then the anime quote thng again. That is when they are in silly just joking not seriuos mode. But watch a few more animes than usual. It's hard to find, but they're there, the anime that has serious emotion. Take a look at samurai champloo, thats a good example. no warped faces, and or anything like that. realistic. Hmm lets see, oh paranoia agent is a good one too. So yeah, i guess pleco, we have different opinions. I prefer the more silly look, whereas you prefer realistic. I have always been a girl trapped in fantasy, where things look unreal. i guess you just prefer everything to be....real. and normal. But dont get me wrong, there is totally a point where i drw the line (ed edd n' eddy, fruit salad island, etc.) and i do enjoy a good realistic cartoon. I guess i prefer the animes and silly ones cuz they are , well i think more intresting. But if i can find the show with a great plot like an anime and realisitc drawing, i would totally watch it. agreed? and another question, are you a professional cartoonist and if not, what is your occupation?
	I am: "Female Ninja Assassin", "Kakashi's Biggest Fan", "Local Naruto Nerd", "Scarer of the Noobs", "Youngest Person on RJ", "Pirate Ninja Sailormouth of the RJ Seas", "Queen of Randomness", and "Navigator on the S.S. Retrojunk."
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System 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 74809	Perhaps to you it is stupid and pointless, but many find it enjoyable. Don't be so quick to defend yourself that you might hurt others. Anyways, the anime style is present in Twilight Princess, just as much as it was in Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker. From your comments, I would guess that you have not had chance to see much anime, since you make some rather unfair generalizations about it. Any style of artwork can be realistic, and any style can be unrealistic. When I call the old Zelda cartoon a piece of crap, I mean it only because the writing was hackneyed and unoriginal. The animation was, for the time and budget, rather okay. The art style was perfect, for what it was attempting to be. However, I would much rather see Zelda done as an anime style (there is absolutely no question as to whether or not it WILL be done in said style, should an animated Zelda be made), because that is the style the games have always had. That is the style you see when you play them, and not any "American" style, or "European" style. Personally, I would much prefer any animated Zelda to be as close to the source material as possible, and that would, I believe (especially given our entertainment market here), only be possible if done by a Japanese production studio. For some reason (what reason I can only speculate, although it is likely cultural in nature), the Japanese studios don't feel the need to reinvent and re-envision properties. I mean, look at any book-to-movie done in the United States, and then look at one from Japan. Without fail, you will see the Japanese movie as a faithful adaptation of the source material, while the American movie will carry only basic plot and character elements over from the book. Hell, they even did it to Lord of the Rings! (Although, I admit, to a much lesser extent.) The days when everything foreign had to be "Americanized" to make it suitable for the American pallette are drawing to an end. Translations of foreign-language works are becoming more faithful, cultural elements from other lands are becoming popular here, and business men are realizing that there is no need to waste money on "Americanization", when you can just do a cheap translation, and put it out for the Western world. Today, Americans wouldn't even bother to produce an animated Zelda, when they could just purchase the license for a finished product from a Japanese production company. And, hopefully, DVD-land will be the ONLY place we'll ever have to again hear "Excuuuuse ME, Princess!".

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mrs.link 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 1839	khrisk, your last paragraph is true. Actually alot of what you said is true. DAmn all of what you said is true
	I am: "Female Ninja Assassin", "Kakashi's Biggest Fan", "Local Naruto Nerd", "Scarer of the Noobs", "Youngest Person on RJ", "Pirate Ninja Sailormouth of the RJ Seas", "Queen of Randomness", and "Navigator on the S.S. Retrojunk."
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mrs.link 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 1839	Wait, was what u said directed at me, or pleco. dude?
	I am: "Female Ninja Assassin", "Kakashi's Biggest Fan", "Local Naruto Nerd", "Scarer of the Noobs", "Youngest Person on RJ", "Pirate Ninja Sailormouth of the RJ Seas", "Queen of Randomness", and "Navigator on the S.S. Retrojunk."
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mrs.link 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 1839	And just remember pleco, these are CARTOONS, not really people doing realistic things. They are supposed to look fake but really cool at the same time. AND I do have a feeling u havent had much of a chnce to see much anime. Go to a convention or something, you'll see. Buy some manga, branch out. Trust me, it will help.
	I am: "Female Ninja Assassin", "Kakashi's Biggest Fan", "Local Naruto Nerd", "Scarer of the Noobs", "Youngest Person on RJ", "Pirate Ninja Sailormouth of the RJ Seas", "Queen of Randomness", and "Navigator on the S.S. Retrojunk."
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Plecostomus 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 23	^Negative. I am a computer programmer (videogame and other multimedia content). I am currently enrolled in college classes in the field. I work with a lot of artwork and talented artists; in doing so I have learned to appreciate the time and talent in creating detailed images. I had to give creativity credit though to some of the Japanese artists in some of their games. Silent Hill: More excellent Silen Hill artwork: http://igrozone.com/walls/silenthill4.htm Resident Evil: They have some good character shots here: http://edgar45607.tripod.com/ Yah. Notice how these 3D models are becoming more and more believable. To me, this is an excellent thing. Quality to the max! (remember, some of these are in-game 3D generations)

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mrs.link 9 years 1 month ago Posts: 1839	indeed, today's quality in games is increaing rapidly. It just amazes me however all those graphics they can produce!! It's insane, it's like your looking at real people and controlling them!! AS for me? I am just a thirteen old girl who wants to do something with art when she grows up...cartooning, graphics, i enjoy it all very much!!
	I am: "Female Ninja Assassin", "Kakashi's Biggest Fan", "Local Naruto Nerd", "Scarer of the Noobs", "Youngest Person on RJ", "Pirate Ninja Sailormouth of the RJ Seas", "Queen of Randomness", and "Navigator on the S.S. Retrojunk."
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